Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[donrae]

I know we joke about this on here a lot..the whole softy newbie not being able to kill a chicken. Sometimes we get a little preachy about it all, I realize. But this is a recurring problem that we see on this forum from new chicken owners that is one of the more disturbing issues. No, we don't expect everyone to be born with an innate ability to go out and kill an animal when they have never done it before.

I'm not directing this whole issue at you but we get this a lot, so I'll address it again if you don't mind~ not just for your benefit and that is the sole intention here, to benefit new chicken owners~ but for all those out there who are doing this chicken thing for the first time. I feel strongly that it not only is your responsibility as someone who owns animals to be able to kill them if you need to do so, but it is also your responsibility to work on your mindset...this is something that really needs to be changed in today's world. This may not be the case for you, but for some reason there are people who think that a person is mean and heartless, with no feelings towards animals, if they can just go out an lop off a chicken's head.

Nothing could be further from the truth, particularly in my case.

Some people think that isolating a chicken, bringing it in the house, doctoring it when it is clearly wounded or sickened almost unto death is an act of extreme compassion and shows their heroic side. It may make the human feel dandy but the chicken has been taken from her familiar and her family structure, placed in isolation in a strange place and is submitted to things that hurt or do not make her feel better....and most of the time she dies anyway. The threads are full of just such incidents. The chicken cannot rationalize that they are just trying to "help" her and all she does know is pain and distress.

When dealing with animals like chickens, one has to develop a certain skill set in order to keep them in a healthy and humane manner. Along with knowing about giving them water, the proper nutrition, safe and healthy housing and environment, is the imperative need to understand how to kill a chicken, even if it is to put it out of its misery. Some things just come along with the territory and the only difference between back in the old days and now is that we were taught this basic principle as children then and now no one teaches their children these things.

Most of the people participating on this forum are not children, so they can learn and be mature and responsible about doing things that are hard to do.... but still need to be done, nonetheless.

Sorry if that sounded like it was directed at you personally because it wasn't.

It just gave another opportunity to stress that very important point to all newbies. I encourage you to weigh this information before getting anymore chicks because this situation or one like will always come around again if you keep chickens for very long.

Bee, your post reminds me of several years ago when one of the larger horse magazines ran an article about how to humanely shoot your horse if need be. They got a lot of flack about it but there was also a huge population that appreciated the advice, and recognized that it may one day be necessary to give mercy to an animal before a vet could be reached. I wasn't raised around guns much and they brought up points I'd not thought of. Do I ever want to shoot my horse? NO. If my dear friend ever needs me to give her that final gift I do feel I would do a competent job, thanks to thinking about it before hand.

Just tonight we had a kitten get run over by a friend's truck. My honey, bless his heart, quickly put it down. No way was that kitten going to live and I'm thankful we had the means to end it quickly. As a nurse I've often said lingering sucks.

 

[JulieNKC]

I have a few more questions. And apparently, this is the best place I've found to get honest, reliable, friendly in your own way answers. Other forums are either full of newbies who don't know anymore than me or people who don't seem too thrilled with answering newbies. I do try to find the answers on my own, but some I've had no luck with.
I would like to start breeding quality/exhibition birds. I don't live in a rural/agricultural area and don't have anyone close enough to me for advice, so the internet is all I've got. I've started out with hatchery and pet quality birds for the most part because they are all that is readily available here and I wanted to make sure I actually liked the breed before investing the time and effort. I'm too old for 4 H, so how do I get into showing? Should I just show what I have that best fits the standard? I really don't care if people laugh at me or my birds. I'm thick skinned and I have to learn somewhere. I've read the standards, and looked at pictures of winners, but that really doesn't help me any. I plan on attending shows as soon as I can (I believe the next one in my area is in oct). But how do I find out what the judges look for in the birds I've picked? And what to look for in my breeders, how to counter balance faults, etc? I could go buy exhibition quality birds, but if I don't know what makes them exhibition quality that's not going to teach me much.
Do I have a chance at producing decent offspring with my non show quality birds? Or would it be better to sell them and start over with better birds? Although I don't even know if mine are that bad. I've picked what I think is best out of them, but I don't know if I was right. Like my magpie calls. I kept the smallest typiest (I think) girls, although they have crappy markings, and the boy is too big and has too long a beak, although he's nice and round. He has better markings than most magpies I've seen though.
So basically, where and how do I start?

My runners and EE's I'm breeding for health and production. It's so much easier. Keep the producers and cull non-laying or unthrifty birds.

That I've managed to figure out all on my own, lol. Sorry for rambling guys.

 

[Back2MyRoots]

I know we joke about this on here a lot..the whole softy newbie not being able to kill a chicken. Sometimes we get a little preachy about it all, I realize. But this is a recurring problem that we see on this forum from new chicken owners that is one of the more disturbing issues. No, we don't expect everyone to be born with an innate ability to go out and kill an animal when they have never done it before.

I'm not directing this whole issue at you but we get this a lot, so I'll address it again if you don't mind~ not just for your benefit and that is the sole intention here, to benefit all new chicken owners.

I feel strongly that it not only is your responsibility as someone who owns animals to be able to kill them if you need to do so, but it is also your responsibility to work on your mindset...this is something that really needs to be changed in today's world. This may not be the case for you, but for some reason there are people who think that a person is mean and heartless, with no feelings towards animals, if they can just go out and lop off a chicken's head.

Nothing could be further from the truth, particularly in my case.

Some people think that isolating a chicken, bringing it in the house, doctoring it when it is clearly wounded or sickened almost unto death is an act of extreme compassion and shows their heroic side. It may make the human feel dandy but the chicken has been taken from her familiar and her family structure, placed in isolation in a strange place and is submitted to things that hurt or do not make her feel better....and most of the time she dies anyway. The threads are full of just such incidents. The chicken cannot rationalize that they are just trying to "help" her and all she does know is pain and distress.

When dealing with animals like chickens, one has to develop a certain skill set in order to keep them in a healthy and humane manner. Along with knowing about giving them water, the proper nutrition, safe and healthy housing and environment, is the imperative need to understand how to kill a chicken, even if it is to put it out of its misery. Some things just come along with the territory and the only difference between back in the old days and now is that we were taught this basic principle as children then and now no one teaches their children these things. Chickens still need Killian' whether we like it or not.

Most of the people participating on this forum are not children, so they can learn and be mature and responsible about doing things that are hard to do.... but still need to be done, nonetheless.

Sorry if that sounded like it was directed at you personally because it wasn't.

It just gave another opportunity to stress that very important point to all newbies. I encourage you to weigh this information before getting any more chicks because this situation or one like it will always come around again if you keep chickens for very long.

I understand your position. I even envy you to an extent. I see the compassion in it. It's great that you, and lots of other people can do this. I bred and raised rabbits for 7 years until my buck was getting up in age enough that I wanted to give him a nice retirement. When we had rabbits that needed to be put down, that job fell to my husband. When my buck that I had raised from a tiny handful got a tumor, in stead of letting him suffer, again, the husband took care of it. Dogs or cats or other wildlife hit by a car or otherwise injured, he dispatches quickly and humanly. And I adore him more for taking care of those things for me. I know most of y'all see it as a sign of softness and weakness. That's your prerogative. I'm not there yet. I don't know that I ever will be. And that's my (or anyone else that can't stomach it) prerogative.

 

[fowlman01]

I understand your position. I even envy you to an extent. I see the compassion in it. It's great that you, and lots of other people can do this. I bred and raised rabbits for 7 years until my buck was getting up in age enough that I wanted to give him a nice retirement. When we had rabbits that needed to be put down, that job fell to my husband. When my buck that I had raised from a tiny handful got a tumor, in stead of letting him suffer, again, the husband took care of it. Dogs or cats or other wildlife hit by a car or otherwise injured, he dispatches quickly and humanly. And I adore him more for taking care of those things for me. I know most of y'all see it as a sign of softness and weakness. That's your prerogative. I'm not there yet. I don't know that I ever will be. And that's my (or anyone else that can't stomach it) prerogative.

Men are good for putting down animals and fixing the septic system.

Walt

 

[normanack]

Men are good for putting down animals and fixing the septic system.

Walt

Don't forget opening jars with stubborn lids.

 

[Fred's Hens]

There are very few real breeders. The people you find online are propagators. They buy some birds that they think will sell and then hatch and sell as many as they can to make some money. They don't pay any attention to what they are doing.....they just crank birds out. Most, but not all of the breeders I know do not try to sell birds. Personally I only sell birds to people I think will do something worthwhile with their birds or to 4H kids.

Walt

Bee, that is precisely the answer I thought you'd get. I am so glad Walt answered it, because he's got the stripes and hash marks to do so. This matches my limited experience. The top notch breeders love the breeds. With Bob Blosi and folks like Walt, it is about the passion for the birds and when they find someone who they judge to be interested in the birds, they help them get some top quality Mohawks of the Reds, or Blosi White Rocks, or you name it. These folks are rare. Their birds are rare. They've spent a life time judging birds and they are also very good at judging people, it seems to me.

I received my heritage, Ringlet Barred Rocks from Kathy because she must have seen in me a desire for them that she judged as genuine. She's done the same thing with her German New Hampshire. I know Bob Blosi spends a lot of time trying to teach and encourage the few folks who he sees may have the passion.

If you love the birds and have bred the birds, a joy comes in helping younger folks along the way. It isn't about the money. I suspect the very best, the rarest, the nicest birds aren't for sale. They mostly get given as gifts. I hope that makes sense. This top 20 group of breeders' main interest is perpetuation and preservation of the breed. Just selling some birds to folks who'll mess them up by crossing them with poor stock, or who just want a few as pets or lawn ornaments but won't continue to breed them and perpetuate them properly isn't of much interest to folks like Bob Blosi and I suspect, not much interest to guy like Walt.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I would like to start breeding quality/exhibition birds.
So basically, where and how do I start?

.

There are two threads, here on BYC, that I would recommend. It'll take a lot of reading, but a year in grad school requires a lot of reading tool LOL

The Heritage Large Fowl thread is very worthwhile reading. It's long, but it is filled with pages of priceless comments, photos and folks who really know their stuff. Keep track of the names mentioned and the breeds attached to those names. (sure, there is a lot of posting that clutters things up, but, oh well)

The second long running thread is The Heritage Rhode Island Red thread. Also worth the long weekend of reading it would take to catch up. It is chock full of solid conversation from some of the most knowledgeable folks you'll ever meet.

These two threads, along with Heritage New Hampshire thread, the Delaware thread and a few others, will jump start your knowledge base in a terrific way.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Fred....the average young person txts 80 times a day .....but usually more. I worked at a university and the only sure way to reach a student was by texting. They didn't pick up their mail or check their email. It is a different generation..I had a student that didn't know that he had to pay for stamps...they were always just in the drawer at home. If you want to see how messed up things are and why...work at a university.

Walt

Walt, I'm aware. LOL. I have 3 kids in the 30's and 6 grands who's ipods are a physical attachment to their bodies. I was just having a little fun with Gabriella and I pm'd her just to be sure she understood my post as humorous. I was afraid I might have offended her, which wasn't my intent. She laughed and said she got my old curmudgeon humor.

 

[al6517]

I have a few more questions. And apparently, this is the best place I've found to get honest, reliable, friendly in your own way answers. Other forums are either full of newbies who don't know anymore than me or people who don't seem too thrilled with answering newbies. I do try to find the answers on my own, but some I've had no luck with.
I would like to start breeding quality/exhibition birds. I don't live in a rural/agricultural area and don't have anyone close enough to me for advice, so the internet is all I've got. I've started out with hatchery and pet quality birds for the most part because they are all that is readily available here and I wanted to make sure I actually liked the breed before investing the time and effort. I'm too old for 4 H, so how do I get into showing? Should I just show what I have that best fits the standard? I really don't care if people laugh at me or my birds. I'm thick skinned and I have to learn somewhere. I've read the standards, and looked at pictures of winners, but that really doesn't help me any. I plan on attending shows as soon as I can (I believe the next one in my area is in oct). But how do I find out what the judges look for in the birds I've picked? And what to look for in my breeders, how to counter balance faults, etc? I could go buy exhibition quality birds, but if I don't know what makes them exhibition quality that's not going to teach me much.
Do I have a chance at producing decent offspring with my non show quality birds? Or would it be better to sell them and start over with better birds? Although I don't even know if mine are that bad. I've picked what I think is best out of them, but I don't know if I was right. Like my magpie calls. I kept the smallest typiest (I think) girls, although they have crappy markings, and the boy is too big and has too long a beak, although he's nice and round. He has better markings than most magpies I've seen though.
So basically, where and how do I start?

My runners and EE's I'm breeding for health and production. It's so much easier. Keep the producers and cull non-laying or unthrifty birds.

That I've managed to figure out all on my own, lol. Sorry for rambling guys.

Wow certainly an awefull lot to tell here, but basicly there are many things you need right off in order to be successful. One get rid of any hatchery birds for showing and exhibition purposes, they will add nothing and will drag your program down into deep despair. Start with the best you can get and afford, before that do your homework on the breed you select and there are some things to consider there as well. LF or bantam, choose a breed that you can handle as a keeper, not all birds are suited for everybody, and some show better than others. You must have your flock NPIP tested in order to show, go to as many shows as you can and learn from people, gather info and maybe even obtain some birds there. The whole showing thing can be and is expensive so if you are able fine if not forget about the whole thing, you can't show and a shoestring. Find someone you know and trust who shows and ask them if they wouldn't mind helping you get going. The joy of showing isn't always winning although that does help LOL, but it's in the learning, breeding, getting better, and accomplishing something. It can be quite daunting at first so maybe a few others can jump in here and offer their tips and experiences showing, I do show and have for a few years but it helps to get info from others sources as well.

 

[bobbi-j]

I understand your position. I even envy you to an extent. I see the compassion in it. It's great that you, and lots of other people can do this. I bred and raised rabbits for 7 years until my buck was getting up in age enough that I wanted to give him a nice retirement. When we had rabbits that needed to be put down, that job fell to my husband. When my buck that I had raised from a tiny handful got a tumor, in stead of letting him suffer, again, the husband took care of it. Dogs or cats or other wildlife hit by a car or otherwise injured, he dispatches quickly and humanly. And I adore him more for taking care of those things for me. I know most of y'all see it as a sign of softness and weakness. That's your prerogative. I'm not there yet. I don't know that I ever will be. And that's my (or anyone else that can't stomach it) prerogative.

My husband takes care of that for me, too. (Along with fixing the septic system and opening jars

) I haven't put a chicken down yet because, frankly, I haven't had to. I grew up as a city girl with the mindset that animals are our friends, and we fix them if they're sick or injured. I have long since changed my thinking on that. I am finally - just now after 30 years of living on the farm and raising various animals - at the point where I THINK I can kill an animal I have raised if it's suffering. I think I can... If DH wasn't around and there was no other choice. It's not that I don't have the stomach for it - it doesn't gross me out. I don't have the heart to. I'm an EMT, and my mindset is more geared toward "treat it". I have tried on various occasions to treat and heal an injured or sick chicken (and other animals). It's never worked. After several such experiences, I have realized that I've done more harm than good. I have no problem "ordering a hit" (as DH says) on an animal - just not looking forward to the day where I have to carry it out myself. Sorry for the rambling post.

ETA - On the subject of shooting a horse. I had one that needed to be put down. When the vet was out to check her and told us that, DH drew an X on her forehead, and the vet said, "Yep, that's the spot" and then proceeded to tell us that that is absolutely the kindest, most humane way to put a horse down. Better than the needle.