Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[smyers32]

I highlighted some questions and points in your post that I will address. I invite other OTs to chime in because this is just MY take on the situation.

Question #1. There are many ways to fatten up a chicken but I think the most important thing is to find out why they are not in good condition in the first place. Not correcting that problem and just adding more fats and proteins to the diet is just throwing money down the toilet. Any reasonably healthy bird should stay in good condition on free range and regular laying ration feed, no matter the actual fat content in the mix. Correct that original problem and they should just fatten up on what you are feeding...if the rest of the flock stay fat on it, why not this bird?

#2. Yes. Sometimes mites will be on some of the chickens but not all. This can eventually change the longer the mites are present in any chicken in your flock until they are all infested.

#3. Some high fat feed formulas will tell the recommended feeding ratio on the bag like Calf Manna Pro. Not sure, but I assume the rest are the same. You can add fats to their diet with regular cooking oils, suet, bacon grease, lard, etc. and just give it in small amounts at first and see how your flock tolerates it. The people who show can best advise you on how to put more fat and conditioning into chickens but it still won't help much if you don't get rid of the source of their problem.

Points in the post:

I'm not a fan of nor have ever used the DE, so cannot reliably discourse on the merits or lack thereof, but can tell you that plain old wood ashes dusted deeply into the skin of all my flock had most of the flock mite free within a few days, with a second application getting the remaining three still having them. I also combined this with applying NuStock on any mite eggs or lice nits at the base of the feathers around the vent.

Give the FF time to work some magic..they've only had it a week, so give it some time to get some probios into their systems and to change the pH and nature of the intestines and their function. Patience is needed when using more natural approaches to care...not like high powered shot or pill.

BOs, when fed plenty of feed, will prefer to eat if from the trough instead of going out and hunting for it. Wrong breed to expect great foraging instincts, though DragonLady has some breeder quality BOs that seem to have retained that natural instinct. If you really want them to forage they have to be a little more hungry....only feeding in the evenings will increase foraging desires, as BOs are used to having their tucker.

The problem with trying to increase the fat and nutrients to the poorly BOs is that it will increase the weight gain on those who are already fluffy..and may lead to digestive or reproductive issues.

I'd add the suet like you are doing, wait for the FF to correct some wrongs, dust with something more effective than DE, use some Nustock as needed and also get some ashes in the nest boxes, NS or neem oil on the roosts. Then start paying attention to coop and soil balance to prevent further infestations.

That's just my take on it....other OTs may present you with more options in treatment. Let us know how it all turns out and what methods you used and the results?

Thank you so much as always, you are so helpful and so generous with your knowledge!

I know how you feel about the BOs

but at least one hen and the roo are really good about going out and working for a living, a couple other hens are sorta hit or miss. I'm hoping the one hen that is so good(she's the only one in my flock that I've seen catch bugs out of the air), hoping she is one of the ones laying. and hoping I can hatch some from her. She's not the biggest or the prettiest, but I just like her. She's got gumption! And she was the first one to really 'bloom' into health after coming to my farm.

On another note, I'm considering trying some dominiques as they are supposed to be good hardy DP birds and very good on free range. Any OTs have experience with this breed??

 

[Beekissed]

If you can get them from a good breeder they may be great but the ones I had from the hatchery performed poorly and were not hardy at all. My grandma used to keep Dommers and they were the greatest little utility layer you could ever want but nowadays I'd hesitate to get anymore unless they came from some old-timey lines.

 

[Beekissed]

Bee,

What's your foundation for saying "something more effective than DE", when you've never used it?

I put a little less than a tuna can in the coop whenever I change bedding (coop floor is 3' x 6'). No bugs, no smell and no moisture.

Just wondering and trying to learn. If there's something that's better and cheaper I'd like to know about it, but I'm pretty satisfied with DE so far.

From 4 years of reading about the effectiveness on it when reported on this forum. Many have reported getting no or mixed results from using the DE for parasites, coop conditioning, etc. So much so that I've never tried it...why would I try something that doesn't work well?

The "no bugs" portion also means no beneficial bugs either...these can keep mite and lice populations in check. DE is not selective. No smell? If it smells, it's out of balance and this can be corrected in other ways...throwing DE on it is a temporary fix and doesn't enrich the deep litter in any way. No moisture? Some moisture in deep litter is desired and the mix cannot decompose well when too dry.

I like to treat deep litter like a composter and creating the right balance to promote the good bacteria and molds that help keep things healthy is not promoted by eliminating all bugs and moisture from it. I know some folks just do deep litter so they won't have to clean out the coop very often but it can be so much more if done right.

 

[smyers32]

I'm planning to get some chicks from a breeder in Ohio. Sunnyside Up Micro-farm. If anyone has experience with, or is familiar with the quality of their stock, I'd love a PM!! I'm planning on a mix of breeds, just to sample some and see what I like and what works for my needs/wants. All their birds are from show stock and they list their lineage, but it's all lost on me. But their birds look nice and healthy and I think the prices are reasonable. I'm ona wait list for a mixed box of BCMs, SPRocks and BAs, and I need to ask about adding the Doms to that, not sure if they are hatching them yet.

 

[thedragonlady]

Now that we're back on track here, I have a question! When I let everyone out this am, one hen stayed on the roost for awhile so I took the opportunity to catch her and inspect her a little. She is sooo light! I guess I just never really thought about a chicken being underweight, but she must be! So how do you fatten up a chicken? And in the same vein, how can I determine what is the appropriate body composition. I picked up one other hen, I call her 'big momma' because she is huge and has the fullest fluffy orpington feathering. Big Momma had considerable more meat on her chest, I could still feel the keel easily, but it wasn't like holding onto an axe blade like the skinny bird. Skinny bird looks the roughest of the bunch feather-wise also. And she seemed to smell bad.

She doesn't look dirty, but she smelled dirty and I did spot a couple mites when I checked around her vent. I checked a couple others and didn't see any sign of mites anywhere. Is it possible for only part of the flock to have mites? I checked several last week and dusted the 2 that showed mites and a third that just looks scruffy w/ DE. I always thought that if one had them, they all would. Some of them look beautiful and the picture of health now, they have really made major improvements in the month that I've had them. But there are 2 or 3 that just aren't looking better at all. What's the deal?? There are at least 2 that are laying every other day or so, but I haven't done the butt check yet to figure out who it is. But I did lock up the 3 best looking hens the other day and got one egg from them and one egg from one of the 3 scruffy hens outside the coop. So I don't want to cull just based on looks.
They get FF twice a day(started a week or so ago) and free range all day, though most are not very interested in actually foraging, ACV in the water, free choice OS and occasional BOSS and kitchen scraps. I gave them a suet cake today, but of course the more well conditioned birds chased the scraggly birds off and chowed down themselves. But I know when I want to put weight on a horse and improve overall condition, I add fat to the diet. Works for horses, and it certainly works for people! Figured it was worth a try. But I don't want to overdo it either. Is there a recommended "dosage" or frequency of feeding for a high fat food for chickens? I was thinking maybe 3x a week?

Ok so that was a lot of questions.

edit: I should add these are buff orps, and from what I understand should be pretty meaty under all that fluff. I'm thinking even big momma might be slightly on the light side for the breed.

Are these hatchery Orps? They bear very little resemblance to SOP Orps , or English Orps, and their type varies greatly You can go to my page, to see SOP and English Orps .My pullets weigh 8+ lbs at 7 months. If you found bugs on one, dust the whole flock. Corn and sunflower seeds will add fat to their diet.

 

[Leahs Mom]

From 4 years of reading about the effectiveness on it when reported on this forum. Many have reported getting no or mixed results from using the DE for parasites, coop conditioning, etc. So much so that I've never tried it...why would I try something that doesn't work well?

The "no bugs" portion also means no beneficial bugs either...these can keep mite and lice populations in check. DE is not selective. No smell? If it smells, it's out of balance and this can be corrected in other ways...throwing DE on it is a temporary fix and doesn't enrich the deep litter in any way. No moisture? Some moisture in deep litter is desired and the mix cannot decompose well when too dry.

I like to treat deep litter like a composter and creating the right balance to promote the good bacteria and molds that help keep things healthy is not promoted by eliminating all bugs and moisture from it. I know some folks just do deep litter so they won't have to clean out the coop very often but it can be so much more if done right.

For me, the issue is the "composting" issue. As Bee states, when it is composting it promotes good bacteria and molds that keep things healthy. If you read the studies that show it to be healthy, it is this composting action that accomplishes that - even raising various vitamins and minerals that are available to the birds.

If you put DE out, it does not discriminate between good bugs and bad bugs - it just kills them all. It's kind of like making a nice big batch of fermented feed (or sauerkraut) then putting it in a pot on the stove and boiling it before eating/feeding. It kills all the beneficial bacteria that has grown in the feed/sauerkraut, making it unavailable.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Okay now tell me how to get those cute icons to where I can use them.

I can tell you where (Bee posted the link) but I think another phone call would be in order so you can learn how to keep 2 browser windows open at the same time!

 

[bobbi-j]

Good gravy! I'm gone for under 36 hours, and I come back to 176 posts to catch up on. Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to read I go...

 

[smyers32]

Are these hatchery Orps? They bear very little resemblance to SOP Orps , or English Orps, and their type varies greatly You can go to my page, to see SOP and English Orps .My pullets weigh 8+ lbs at 7 months. If you found bugs on one, dust the whole flock. Corn and sunflower seeds will add fat to their diet.

Not sure what you mean, as I haven't posted pics of any but the cockerel. But also, I don't know their origins. I know who I got them from and will NEVER go near that place or buy birds from her again, rookie mistake. But I don't believe she bred/raised these birds (she may have hatched the cockerel, not sure) and she didn't say where they came from. They do vary a lot in type, but I'd say the cockerel and at least 2 of the hens are pretty nice looking. Of course, I'm no expert. For sure, the rest are garbage.

 

[KnobbyOaks]

Good gravy! I'm gone for under 36 hours, and I come back to 176 posts to catch up on. Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to read I go...

X2 !!!