Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

Thank you, Fred...you put it so much better than I could.

 

[Beekissed]

very well put bee. i was hesitant on even posting the response.. i was looking at the first picture of her flock with general mannerisms i think i may have spoke out of line on this one. i apologize for any mis information. .

No worries, Bruce.

These guys just have been at it longer than us(choosing roosters) and have a different perspective than just a backyard one, so thought I should mention their superior skills on rooster pickin' so that newbies who are looking for superior genetics can have another source of opinion.

 

[Fred's Hens]

We hatched a dozen red roosters this year. Half are heritage RIR from a really good, but a bit neglected, line. They had not been bred well for the past few generations, just sort of kept in a large pen and pen bred willy nilly. The DNA is still there, but we've got some work to do. The rest of the red roosters are part of our utility layer program. I'll also choose the #1 and #2 roosters for the GS-Frank Reese line of Barred Rocks.

I'm heading down to the brothers in KY in a few weeks to make up some breeding selections for February. They can start a month earlier than I can, way up here. Since I won't be back again this winter, my selections will be rather crucial. I've learned so much from Walt, Bob Blosl, NYReds, and others and we'll see what we come up with.

I ordered a new incubator and am excited for the coming year. I've got my utility pullets/hens already chosen for my spring breeding pens. I'll segregate them come February and begin collecting eggs March 1. I've chosen one rooster, but I probably need to see about bringing another back with me at the end of the month. We'll see. They are only 7 months old and it will be dicey choosing this early, but I've no alternative. Since I've promised Julie that'd I send her some of our utility birds, the pressure is really on. LOL

 

[Beekissed]

I'll tell you when I have a broody and maybe we can coincide our spring incubating!

I'll keep her setting 'til doomsday to get some of that line, Fred!

Any chance you could post a pic or two of a rooster of a particular breed and point out what to look for and why as it pertains to laying genetics? Nothing involved, just a brief once over of his good points and why they are considered good for future genes?

 

[smyers32]

That's a good point to distinguish between the different uses for the rooster your picking. I'm not concerned with SOP, but more with utility. I have so much more to learn about what this all even means at this point. I know all but 1 or 2 of my hens (or maybe all) seem like junk at this point, but I'm going to give it a little more time before I thin the flock. I need to spend more time watching them, and more time reading what all you folks have to say about developing a useful dp, free range flock.

for bruceh: (I'd love to know what she is too!)


her leg feathers are just growing back in. She had one measly feather just above each foot when I got her. she also didn't have any saddle feathers and only a couple sad looking tail feathers.

I suspect she's just a mutt, but what do I know?

 

[Fred's Hens]

There are some physical features that are negatives, no matter if one is breeding for show (which I don't, but some of our customers will) or for breed preservation, (to which I am strongly inclined) or for a hardy utility flock of good layers.

I don't care who or what you're breeding goals are, a pinched tail is a pinched tail. Excessive butt fluff will lead to poorer fertility. Flat or under-shaped keels and chests produces a weak and unthrifty bird with no room for organs and little breast meat. Legs set too close together or bad wing carriage produces an awkward and unsightly bird, I don't care what your breeding goals are. A faster feathering chick is destined to be a better layer than a slow feathering bird. Some of this stuff is common to everyone.

Just thought I'd throw that out.

 

[smyers32]

I'll tell you when I have a broody and maybe we can coincide our spring incubating!

I'll keep her setting 'til doomsday to get some of that line, Fred!

Any chance you could post a pic or two of a rooster of a particular breed and point out what to look for and why as it pertains to laying genetics? Nothing involved, just a brief once over of his good points and why they are considered good for future genes?

That would be lovely!

 

[Fred's Hens]

As most of you know, I don't own a good camera and am a lousy photographer. One of these days, I'm gonna do a "fashion show" and give some birds a bath, blow dry them, and have them walk a runway so a good photographer can do a photo shoot for me.

Anyhow, here's a bird from the Kittle line that JimmyJ has. Jimmy has very nice birds.




We have this blood line, but as I say, ours need some work. Some might ask why not just get some Mohawks or Bennet birds and just breed them? Well, we might, but this is what we have right now and we're gonna work with what we've got. If we never get the line to where it needs to be for SOP and show customers, well, that's that. We're also using this red blood in our red utility layer line, so it will not go for naught. The Kittle line was known for it's genteel red birds that were hardy, broody and great layers. Those are extremely important features to us.

Here is why our birds need work. They've been allowed to get their tails too high in carriage. We need to fix that. They need better combs, flatter backs and less stringy feathers too. If we can improve on this, fine, but we don't want to lose their good nature dispositions and good egg laying.

Here is a photo of a young cockerel we got last year. Not a good photo, I understand. Remember, we are just now getting started, so don't be too harsh. There's lots and lots of work to do.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote by Fred:
I know nothing about the reasons behind this or that feature according to SOP, so could you explain a little as to why it is important if their tails are too high, backs not flat enough and combs not good enough as it translates into better flock genetics for utility purposes? Like, if the tail is too high it could mean _____________ in regards to breeding, or when the back is flatter it shows ________, which is important for _________ reason? I'm woefully ignorant when it comes to what a chicken should look like and why. I just know I like a deep chest and wide rear, with a proud carriage, good feathering, etc.

I will never be a breeder but those SOPs were developed first for utility purposes, weren't they? Back in the day, the farmers were looking for these conformation points as they applied to performance, I'm assuming. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Don't want to turn flock management into a breeder thread but I think many here want to improve their flocks in any way they can do it that is easy on the pocket and requires minimal time investment, so if they could cull judiciously from their hatchery stock it may help them develop better genetics on a budget. It won't get them an SOP rooster but any improvement in laying and meat is an improvement, nonetheless, I'm thinking. It's a step towards the better end of poultry keeping.

 

[Fred's Hens]

The flat back is merely a breed requirement. The purpose for avoiding pinched tails is obvious, I hope. A hen with a nice wide rear, and a "tent" of her tail feathers will be an easy layer and good breeder, in my experience. The front keel is vital for organ spacing and breast meat development. The high tail is merely unattractive and a fault. But, I believe, right or wrong, that a super high tail on the male leads to females without the nice wide rear and tent tail we all seek. A better feathered bird is warmer in winter and cooler in summer, that's my practical side coming through again. This isn't just about fussiness for fussiness sake. Got to look deeper for the wisdom behind such things.

The Uber large comb is not a good feature for cold hardiness. When the combs get too big and too spikey? I believe you're just going to be in a bad place come that bitter January cold snap. Those are my thoughts. Yes, my thinking is far more on the farmer side of things, but I do see the hows and whys and reasons of those originators of these breeds. I believe they were wise in much of what they wanted in a bird a century ago. That's just my point of view. I respect those old birds folks of long ago.