Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[Beekissed]

Excellent! Just what I needed to hear...the reason behind the reason. I'm practical that way as well and look for structures as to their function and normal function being key.

I have a perfect example of a flat tail right now in my flock and she just happens to have a slight wry tail as well, barely discernible to someone not really looking for it. She is a Speckled Sussex and I'll try to get a good pic of her today so that we can show her...she is already marked for culling come spring. Her shape is ALL wrong and you can tell at a glance she will never be a good layer.

I'll post a few pics of roos to show the differences and you can maybe tell us something about them both? Both are hatchery stock, of course. Sorry I don't have views of all sides for both of these examples and I don't want to bother you with "ask Fred" type posts by starting a precedence but it's easier to understand with pictures, I think. These are the only ones I can dig up...

A 7 mo. old EE rooster.




A 6 yr old Partridge Rock.

 

[Mountain Momma]

Excellent! Just what I needed to hear...the reason behind the reason. I'm practical that way as well and look for structures as to their function and normal function being key.

I have a perfect example of a flat tail right now in my flock and she just happens to have a slight wry tail as well, barely discernible to someone not really looking for it. She is a Speckled Sussex and I'll try to get a good pic of her today so that we can show her...she is already marked for culling come spring. Her shape is ALL wrong and you can tell at a glance she will never be a good layer.

I'll post a few pics of roos to show the differences and you can maybe tell us something about them both? Both are hatchery stock, of course. Sorry I don't have views of all sides for both of these examples and I don't want to bother you with "ask Fred" type posts by starting a precedence but it's easier to understand with pictures, I think. These are the only ones I can dig up...

A 7 mo. old EE rooster.




A 6 yr old Partridge Rock.

I think you guys are psychic today. You were answering my questions as I was thinking them. lol. Does the white chicken have a flat back?
Someone said that a too fluffy rear end is a negative because breeding is harder. I thought it was a positive because my fluffiest chicken butt chickens are also the cleanest and were the earliest layers. My ?EE/Americauna? chickens have tails like your white one, I think, and I thought it was just the breed.
Bee, your roosters look a lot like mine, even the saddle feathers. The quintessential rooster look. Yours have lower tails and seem stockier, maybe they are older, but they are very handsome. Does that mean my hatch roos are Partridge rock since they look alike? I had to look up Keel because I kinda knew what it was but wanted to be sure. Is it considered a fluffy butt if the bussel or whatever skirt part of the hips and back lower part sticks out more on the sides?
This is fascinating stuff. And what an opportunity to improve upon the common hatchery chicken. I'm not ready to do any of that -I cant tell their tails are tent or flat even. I was just gonna keep it simple with watching them this winter and keeping the ones that do well under adversity. I think the flock dynamic is really healthy though. They coo and chirp and take baths and sit together a lot. I still feel and have felt for a long time that the plymouth rocks are the best overall survivor but they also eat more than all of the others. They are always eating, first to the food and last to leave the food. So definitely not thrifty.
None of them look like the depression chicken pictures. Anyway, thank you very much for all the tutorials.
Below is what I found on Keel.
The keel is the large bone you see when you eat a roasted chicken and pull the breast meat away from the large flat bone that looks like the keel of a boat. The keel is the "breast bone"....flattened and elongated in birds to give a place for the wing muscles to attach...allowing more power for flight. It is also used to check how healthy a bird is....if you can feel the keel easily and it seems to be protruding, the bird is underweight. If you can feel solid muscle and body weight on either side, making the keel just a line found between muscles if you can find it at all, then the bird is eating alright and keeping weight.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_keel_bone_on_a_chicken#ixzz2B0pb0oh0

 

[thedragonlady]

There are some physical features that are negatives, no matter if one is breeding for show (which I don't, but some of our customers will) or for breed preservation, (to which I am strongly inclined) or for a hardy utility flock of good layers.

I don't care who or what you're breeding goals are, a pinched tail is a pinched tail. Excessive butt fluff will lead to poorer fertility. Flat or under-shaped keels and chests produces a weak and unthrifty bird with no room for organs and little breast meat. Legs set too close together or bad wing carriage produces an awkward and unsightly bird, I don't care what your breeding goals are. A faster feathering chick is destined to be a better layer than a slow feathering bird. Some of this stuff is common to everyone.

Just thought I'd throw that out.

Fred,

You are right on. My Buff Orps with the heaviest down , who feather the fastest, are the better layers. I have SOP and pure English buff Orps that lay at 6 months. The English birds have the deepest keels I've ever felt, with very broad breasts. They will weigh 8+ lbs at 6 months, and lay up a storm. So will the crosses of EBOs to SOP birds. They all have good wings, due to lots of exercise growing up, and therefor have wide, meaty breasts.I cannot get my fingers around the drumbsticks of a 6 month old cockerel.

 

[thedragonlady]

That's a good point to distinguish between the different uses for the rooster your picking. I'm not concerned with SOP, but more with utility. I have so much more to learn about what this all even means at this point. I know all but 1 or 2 of my hens (or maybe all) seem like junk at this point, but I'm going to give it a little more time before I thin the flock. I need to spend more time watching them, and more time reading what all you folks have to say about developing a useful dp, free range flock.

for bruceh: (I'd love to know what she is too!)


her leg feathers are just growing back in. She had one measly feather just above each foot when I got her. she also didn't have any saddle feathers and only a couple sad looking tail feathers.

I suspect she's just a mutt, but what do I know?

She is a young blue Orp,. probably a hatchery one. She is the correct color, but she needs much more substance and width. She also has 2 disqualifiable faults: She has Stubbs on her shanks, and a side sprig on her comb on the left side.

 

[unkadan]

A question for Fred and dragonlady, you both mentioned that your lines are good layers, how many eggs a week or per year do your pullets/hens lay on average in these 2 heritage varieties?

This stems from my curiosity as I build a flock and I would guess others that subscribe here that are raising birds for egg production. I know Fred's thinking on birds for production purposes, but am curious as to what a "good" layer in a true heritage line will do

Bee, thanks for letting the thread lean to these fine heritage breeds for a bit

Dan

 

[Celie]

She is a young blue Orp,. probably a hatchery one. She is the correct color, but she needs much more substance and width. She also has 2 disqualifiable faults: She has Stubbs on her shanks, and a side sprig on her comb on the left side.

Dragonlady, you have good eyes, I did not notice the sprig until you mentioned it. I DO have BAD eyes, for sure!

 

[Fred's Hens]

A 6 yr old Partridge Rock.

That is a handsome fellow. I sure hope you can put his genes to work in spring.

 

[smyers32]

She is a young blue Orp,. probably a hatchery one. She is the correct color, but she needs much more substance and width. She also has 2 disqualifiable faults: She has Stubbs on her shanks, and a side sprig on her comb on the left side.

I was told she's around 2 years old, but I was also told she was a lavender! Lol. Can you elaborate on the faults you mentioned? I don't know what either of those things mean. It doesn't really matter with her, I won't be hatching her eggs. But I'd like to know faults to look for with other hens if I ever do decide to hatch from my own stock. I plan to get better stock before I get into that. I don't even know if she's laying, but she's probably on the freezer list anyway.

 

[Beekissed]

That is a handsome fellow. I sure hope you can put his genes to work in spring.

Fred, I think he's getting about too old. Was hoping to get a male in some of those chicks you send so that I can retire old Toby. I think he might not be performing as usual...found a few eggs not fertile and he only has 11 hens to cover. I'm thinking he might have earned a retirement after all these years of good service.

 

[Mountain Momma]

I was told she's around 2 years old, but I was also told she was a lavender! Lol. Can you elaborate on the faults you mentioned? I don't know what either of those things mean. It doesn't really matter with her, I won't be hatching her eggs. But I'd like to know faults to look for with other hens if I ever do decide to hatch from my own stock. I plan to get better stock before I get into that. I don't even know if she's laying, but she's probably on the freezer list anyway.

I was just picturing a whole flock of blue orpingtons with a yelow polish crested rooster.