Chickens for 10-20 years or more? Pull up a rockin' chair and lay some wisdom on us!

[delisha]

For those who love fish, yet find it hard to get over the fish smell..using a zip lock bag with 2 tablespoons of milk and a teaspoon of salt makes a great brine for the night before cooking.

 

[al6517]

Why the milk ???

 

[galanie]

Sarah,

I've never had a problem with permethrin killing my worms, though I use it very rarely in my garden. When I bought this old carriage house 23 years ago, the property consisted of sand to 30 feet deep, with scrub trees, wisteria...as in a Tarzan movie...and smilax vines as the understory to some magnificent old trees.Basically nothing had been done to it since the Korean War. There were mosquitos breeding in the fallen magnolia leaves, and many fire ant mounds, but no benefical insects. I hacked out the jungle by hand, and mulched everything with as much manure as I could get my hands on. I bought worms to get them started here, as there were none...not one !

I have never sent a leaf, or small twig to a landfill. They are all used as mulch. I now have 4-6 inches of black top soil all over, with topsoil / mulch 14" deep under all the Hydrangeas, and Azaleas. The worms are my friends. I have had to use permethrin on some azaleas for the yearly fall caterpillar infestation, but have never seen any worm kill. They are thriving, as are the lady bugs, and praying mantises, and honey bees. I think if Permethrin is used judiciously; it is the safest chemical I can use, that really works.

I salute you and know that this works perfectly for you. I know also that I'm being just way to darn picky when it comes to my soil. Most likely I can use the stuff like it's Holy Water and have nothing ever come no matter where I put it. And if it were my birds I would do just that if I had to, no matter.

Herein is the problem. I use Pyrethrin heavily and in one huge dose. For ant beds. NOTHING will rid my vegetable garden area of persistent ants except Pyrethrin. Having gardened organically in the same place for many many years, I know what will work. I have used powerful poisons that are not organic whatsoever and yet had the worst results when it comes to these ants. They are Fire Ants on steriods. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, that even comes close to deterring, killing, or running them off, is pyrethrin or permethrin. Pyrethrin still, in my experience, works best. Why? I have no idea. It makes no sense if the two are chemically identical. Then again, having different "half lives" makes no sense either give the same. So what do I know? Little or nothing obviously. I have resisted using Permethrin for this after the first time and seeing different results than what I expected and then I was unable to find how long it persists in the soil. Cornell has now published that information:

Permethrin is readily broken down, or degraded, in most soils except organic types. Soil micro-organisms play a large role in the degradation of permethrin in the soil. Permethrin was found to persist for 28 days in organic soils, decreasing slowly throughout the season. It has a half-life of from three to six weeks (10). The addition of nutrients to soil may increase the degradation of permethrin. It has been observed that the availability of sodium and phosphorous decreases when permethrin is added to the soil.

I'm not exactly sure how it is the that type of soil that should host the most soil microorganisms seem to break down permethrin the slowest while it's depend on soil microorganisms to do just that. It makes no sense. However, the answer to my question appears to be "28 days" unless I want to keep reading and use the figure "3 to 6 weeks" based on it's half life. Maybe I'm not the one to know but only the one to ask. I can't figure out the answer to that but I'll leave it up to folks with bigger brains and more education to explain it all.

And Ridgerunner, I do thank you for the link but nothing on that page gave me the amount of time that it stays active. "It depends" is great but I need more detail.

I'm likely just a silly person that is asking questions that no one should. Because after all, we all know how harmless the stuff is. But when I see results that do not jive what what we all know to be true, I start asking questions. It's just my nature. Often I am humbled. But I learn regardless.

 

[normanack]

Did you treat the wood around the broody? when my hen was broody and had mites the mites were also in the crevices in the coop I had to spray down into the cracks and crevices also the roosts. Reason is if you do all the above and not treat the coop/brooder all over they are just waiting to crawl back out and climb back on her.

I treated all the wood in the nest boxes and brooder -- floors, walls, ceilings, cracks and crevices, etc. with pyrethrin/sulfur spray. I could find no mites on the roosts or in samples of bedding around the coop or on four of the other birds, although I intend to check them all over the next couple days. Although I haven't sprayed the roosts and coop walls yet, I fully intend to, with neem oil and/or pyrethrin spray. I am planning to re-spray every other day for a week, then once every 4 days for a few weeks, then figure out if and when to spray again.

I like the first option. Sounds like she is a mite buffet! Using any Nustock on this bird? Could be that sulfur would be enough to deter them from feasting on her blood. When it worked for my birds it was the combination of the two things.

What would you bathe her in? Dawn?

I don't have any Nu-Stock yet and am tracking down local sources for the ingredients. If I can't find them, I'll order them online. Meanwhile I have bag balm which I hope will smother the beasties around her vent. I don't have Dawn on hand -- I do have baby shampoo. I'm half an hour from the nearest store, so will probably use the baby shampoo and get Dawn on Monday.

In all fairness to you and your birds, your method is flawed in several ways, you don't plan to treat the coop as well or any other areas with anything that will really rid you of these pest, and there isn't a re-treatment plan for when those nasty mite eggs hatch in 7-10 days or so into even more nasty lil mites, you have to consider the lifecycle also. Without these steps your just setting yourself up for an endless nightmare of this visious cycle, as I said in my earlier post you have to the full monty, if not why even bother to begin with. Good luck.

I do intend to treat the whole coop in the next few days, on the schedule above, which I chose in hopes of interrupting the 7-ish day life cycle. Do you think I need something stronger than pyrethrin and neem oil? The only reason I haven't hit the whole coop already is that I am putting all my available time on the hen, nest boxes, and brooder, which is where the mites are concentrated right now. I have no doubt the little beasties will spread everywhere -- I just can't do everything at once. Al, I trust you to call it how you see it and let me know where my efforts fall short. Seriously. And thank you!!!

 

[al6517]

Ok good then your on the right track ...... great I think you'll get them with this treatment every other day is a bit overkill but a 7 schedule will give you a rest. good job.

 

[smyers32]

Well, darnit! My roo got frostbite

Could it just be from free ranging out in the cold wind? There is no way it was from humidity. the coop is open air in a huge pole barn with a high roof and a too open ridge vent, plus venting under the eaves. It's just darn cold and he has a big comb. Poor guy.

Edit: ok, I guess it could be from humidity that isn't from poor coop design...just checked the weather, 24F actual temp w/ 80% humidity, not much I can do about that I guess.

 

[delisha]

Why the milk ???

Trimethylamine oxide is a common chemical in living things—it's colorless, odorless, and produced by normal metabolic processes. When a fish or shellfish is killed however, it breaks down into Trimethylamine, which is the chemical responsible for that fishy smell that we all know so well.
If your cut of fish isn't too far gone: as in the flesh is still firm and it's only a few days thawed at most, a quick soak for about 10-20 minutes in a bowl of milk will help get rid of the odor. The casein in the milk bonds with the trimethylamine, and while it's not a full extraction, a quick soak can pull a good bit out of the flesh and reduce the odor. The casein in milk is use for many things like breaking down fibers in chicken to make it tender yet leave it juicy.

 

[Zanna]

Thank you for this information, protecting bees is important to us - killing pollinators while trying to kill flea beetles is a bad exchange.
Treating birds, coop, roosts, etc. with pyrethrin or permethrin powder won't affect bees, will it? I have not had mites but it could happen, and I'd like to know in case i ever need to.

We have 100 hives of bees on our farm relatively close to the chickens for the winter months, all summer they are moved to different farms to polinate crops. They basically hibernate for the winters where we live in the Willamette Valley, Oregon. Early spring they start looking for food sources which are scarce. For about a month they frequent my open air coop to glean the dust out of my chickens feeders (mostly soy flour). If I had permethrin dust in there then from dusting chickens, roosts, etc. they would gather it and take it back to the hive. If you do not have any actual hives on your property and/or do not have an open air coop, I would not be concerned. I just save the dusting for the winter months if I ever have the need to do it. I don't see where the wood ashes would pose a problem at all or any type of spray, just the chemical powders. Don't know where you live but basically the bees won't fly and look for food unless temps. are in the mid 50's so you would be safe using the powders in the cooler weather.

 

[Zanna]

I don't think I ever thanked Fred and Dragonlady for the invaluable advise/opinions on worming and everyone else who had input with my dilemma. Well, I found my way Fred! I spoke with my Equestrian Vet. of 25 years and he took fecal samples for me. We collected samples from a 3 year old Cock who has been in the breeder pen for 6 mos., a variety of free-ranging pullets/hens, and a variety of free-ranging 10 week olders. I had decided if there was a heavy infestation that I would use chemical wormers, either ivermectin or valbazen. My vet confirmed that both products are used frequently on people and in his opinion are relatively safe, all things considered. Anyways, all of the chickens had such a low to zero parasite load and only roundworms so he did not recommend worming. I am going to do fecal samples every 6 mos. and worm or not worm based on that. Thanks again!

 

[neopolitancrazy]

Angela :
By that I mean how you age if at all or to brine or not to brine, those two processing methods do make a difference.

Thanks!