Chocolate projects?

[Lozuufy]

Does anyone know how I would produce chocolate mottled orpingtons. I have chocolates and mottled but not real sure how to produce true choc mottled?

The easiest way I can think of would be to cross a chocolate (preferably male) with a mottled (use multiple hens so that there will be more genetic diversity), then cross their babies together (or cross the male babies with mottled hens) and you should get some mottled chocolates (these might be only females unless you originally started with a choc male).

If you started with a chocolate male and mottled females then you should get both choc mottled males and females by this point. If you started with a mottled roo and choc hens you will need to cross the choc mottled hens with their brothers to get both choc mottled hens and roos.

 

[Couchmo]

So great to discover this thread! I have LF Chocolate Ameraucana eggs in the incubator now, along with LF Silver Ameraucana eggs. I am so looking forward to breed some of the Chocolates to Chocolates. I will also breed my LF Lavender Ameraucana roo to both the Chocolate & the Silver hens. Now I'm wondering about breeding a Chocolate to a Silver or vice versa?... The possibilities are amazing. I know so little about genetics that I LOVE this thread and all the great info! Thanks all you genetics whizzes

 

[Wappoke]

So great to discover this thread! I have LF Chocolate Ameraucana eggs in the incubator now, along with LF Silver Ameraucana eggs. I am so looking forward to breed some of the Chocolates to Chocolates. I will also breed my LF Lavender Ameraucana roo to both the Chocolate & the Silver hens. Now I'm wondering about breeding a Chocolate to a Silver or vice versa?... The possibilities are amazing. I know so little about genetics that I LOVE this thread and all the great info! Thanks all you genetics whizzes

The bits of information you need to remember are the following about the chocolate gene:

chocolate is recessive and sex-linked

females inherit one chocolate gene from the father- the mother has no part in passing on the chocolate gene to the female offspring

to produce chocolate female offspring- the father must be chocolate or at least one of the fathers parents was chocolate (this father is not choc)

males must inherit one chocolate gene from the mother (she has to be chocolate) and one chocolate from the father-

* to produce chocolate male offspring the hen parent must be chocolate and at least one of the father's parents was chocolate (this father is not choc)



lavender is an autosomal recessive gene

lavender x non-lavender = no lavender F1 offspring but each F1 offspring is a carrier of the lav gene (LAV*L) and can have some lavender offspring if crossed with a lavender mate

lavender x non-lavender = F1 offspring ( not lavender) you can be assured carry lavender- any other cross and you will not know which non-lav is a carrier

for example if you cross an F1 x F1 from above cross = some lavender offspring but the other non-laves may or may not be carriers you will not know which non-lavs you can cross with a lav to produce more lavs



silver and gold are found at the same locus while silver (S*S) is dominant and gold (S*N) is recessive- usually a chicken is silver or gold

gold works like the chocolate gene

to get silver F1 offspring at least one of the parents must be silver

silver hen x gold male = (F1) silver males and gold females- F1 males are hybrids (carries silver and gold)
silver hen x silver male ( hybrid carries silver and gold) = all silver F1 males (all hybrids) some silver F1 females and some F1 gold females

gold hen x silver male (purebred carries only silver) = all F1 silver offspring but males are hybrids
gold hen x silver male (hybrid carries silver and gold) = gold males and females plus silver males and females (silver males are hybrids)

your chocolates are most likely gold so you may want to treat the chocolates like gold birds when you do your first crosses.

You will want to treat your choc birds like black phenotypes. Choc x most varieties (non choc) equals basic black offspring

Choc female x silver male = basic black with some white in hackles (females), males will be black but have silver anywhere in the pyle region

silver female x choc male ( if gold) = basic black with some red in hackles females, males same as above cross

 

[Couchmo]

The bits of information you need to remember are the following about the chocolate gene:

chocolate is recessive and sex-linked

females inherit one chocolate gene from the father- the mother has no part in passing on the chocolate gene to the female offspring

[COLOR=FF0000]to produce chocolate female offspring- the father must be chocolate or at least one of the fathers parents was chocolate (this father is not choc)[/COLOR]

males must inherit one chocolate gene from the mother (she has to be chocolate) and one chocolate from the father-

* [COLOR=FF0000]to produce chocolate male offspring the hen parent must be chocolate and at least one of the father's parents was chocolate (this father is not choc)[/COLOR]



lavender is an autosomal recessive gene

lavender x non-lavender = no lavender F1 offspring but each F1 offspring is a carrier of the lav gene (LAV*L) and can have some lavender offspring if crossed with a lavender mate 

lavender x non-lavender = F1 offspring ( not lavender) you can be assured carry lavender- any other cross and you will not know which non-lav is a carrier

for example if you cross an F1 x F1 from above cross = some lavender offspring but the other non-laves may or may not be carriers you will not know which non-lavs you can cross with a lav to produce more lavs



silver and gold are found at the same locus while silver (S*S) is dominant and gold (S*N) is recessive- usually a chicken is silver or gold

gold works like the chocolate gene 

to get silver  F1 offspring at least one of the parents must be silver

silver hen x gold male = (F1) silver males and gold females- F1 males are hybrids (carries silver and gold)
silver hen x silver male ( hybrid carries silver and gold) = all silver F1 males (all hybrids) some silver F1 females and some F1 gold females

gold hen x silver male (purebred carries only silver) = all F1 silver offspring but males are hybrids
gold hen x silver male (hybrid carries silver and gold) = gold males and females plus silver males and females (silver males are hybrids)

your chocolates are most likely gold so you may want to treat the chocolates like gold birds when you do your first crosses. 

You will want to treat your choc birds like black phenotypes. Choc x most varieties (non choc) equals basic black offspring

Choc female x silver male  = basic black with some white in hackles (females), males will be black but have silver anywhere in the pyle region

silver female x choc male ( if gold) = basic black with some red in hackles females, males same as above cross

WOW, there ya go again! Wappoke, you've given me some REAL SOLID genetics for my flock.

BTW, the first egg hatched a little earlier! A new little Chocolate Ameraucana has joined this world

 

[Wappoke]

great have fun

 

[KYTinpusher]

I have had an interesting juvenile pop up in my Chocolate/Mauve project. I have an 11 week old juvenile that I believe is a pullet, but I am not positive yet. She is the result of a Splash/split to chocolate cock over a blue hen. There is a slight chance that I marked the egg wrong (about 1/2 of 1%) as I am only human, and she could be out of a mauve hen under the same cock. However, that still does not explain her. She is a standard splash color with 1, and only 1, half chocolate feather in her tail. Hmmm...

 

[Lozuufy]

I have had an interesting juvenile pop up in my Chocolate/Mauve project. I have an 11 week old juvenile that I believe is a pullet, but I am not positive yet. She is the result of a Splash/split to chocolate cock over a blue hen. There is a slight chance that I marked the egg wrong (about 1/2 of 1%) as I am only human, and she could be out of a mauve hen under the same cock. However, that still does not explain her. She is a standard splash color with 1, and only 1, half chocolate feather in her tail. Hmmm...

I have a similar thing with one of my female pigeons (the chocolate/brown gene in pigeons is pretty much the same as in chickens), still haven't figured it out

 

[Wappoke]

I have had an interesting juvenile pop up in my Chocolate/Mauve project. I have an 11 week old juvenile that I believe is a pullet, but I am not positive yet. She is the result of a Splash/split to chocolate cock over a blue hen. There is a slight chance that I marked the egg wrong (about 1/2 of 1%) as I am only human, and she could be out of a mauve hen under the same cock. However, that still does not explain her. She is a standard splash color with 1, and only 1, half chocolate feather in her tail. Hmmm...

Do you have any homozygous (splash) blue birds that have white feathers splashed with chocolate? Have you seen pictures of the splash chocolate birds?

If you have seen the phenotype, was the phenotype found in both males and females or just males and not females?

 

[KYTinpusher]

Quote:

If you have seen the phenotype, was the phenotype found in both males and females or just males and not females?

I have hatched Mauve and Mauve Splash pullets from this mating. I don't have pictures right now, but there is a definite difference. All of the cockerels were blue and blue splash - half should be split to chocolate, but of course that can only be confirmed by test breeding. Only this one with the one partially chocolate feather has me wondering what is up. I am beginning to wonder if it is a hermaphrodite? I guess I will have to see when/if it lays an egg.
ETA - The other pullets that did not carry the chocolate gene were all standard blue and splash, as expected, with no chocolate coloring visible.

 

[Wappoke]

Quote:

If you have seen the phenotype, was the phenotype found in both males and females or just males and not females?

I have hatched Mauve and Mauve Splash pullets from this mating. I don't have pictures right now, but there is a definite difference. All of the cockerels were blue and blue splash - half should be split to chocolate, but of course that can only be confirmed by test breeding. Only this one with the one partially chocolate feather has me wondering what is up. I am beginning to wonder if it is a hermaphrodite? I guess I will have to see when/if it lays an egg.


ETA - The other pullets that did not carry the chocolate gene were all standard blue and splash, as expected, with no chocolate coloring visible.

This is a hypothetical answer to what you have observed. It may be a case of epistasis. In hens, which only have one recessive chocolate gene, the two blue alleles are hyperstatic to the chocolate gene ( cancel out the chocolate gene). In males, the case may be that the two blue alleles would not be hyperstatic because the males have two chocolate genes. Males should be splashed with chocolate. And then again, maybe two blue alleles would cancel out two chocolate genes also. That is why I asked if you had seen or had raised any splash birds that were white and chocolate.

When you say mauve- what genes are responsible for a mauve bird. would the bird carry both blue and the chocolate gene(s).

If you hatched mauve splash then what I stated is not supported by the birds you have produced.