Choosing a beta cockerel. Help!

[16 and me]

Hi all, I have a handful of questions about raising cockerels, and I could really use some advice.
I have a great alpha Ameraucana rooster, who is just over 2 yrs old. About a year ago I had to cull his beta - a polish who was great with the hens but challenging me & the Alpha every time he would try to mate his hens. So now I am looking to replace him.
I have 9 hens (1.5- 2.5 yrs) and 6 pullets.
1 of my 3 cockerels - Xander, is 22 weeks old. He is the offspring of the Alpha & had been a great young cockerel, calm and confident, much like his sire. He is a beautiful roo, very alert, great with me & Alpha. Now he is a teenager with raging hormones and he is harassing the hens, pullets & cockerels. He is the high-ranking cock, older and clearly more dominant. He has been such a nuisance that I am keeping him in the penalty box & after all the flock goes in to roost, I let him in last. If I let him out with the flock, within the first few minutes he is chasing a hen, grabbing feathers and as she runs away squawking he is left with a beak full of feathers. A few of the hens chase him down and he runs from them, but he finds another.
The other 2 are 16 week old Blue Copper Marans, which were added to the flock as day olds. The larger one, Sebastian, has already started mounting pullets & and chasing the occasional hen. He gets short stints in the penalty box, but today Xander went after him and pulled out a mouthful of his feathers.
The smaller BCM, Samuel, is quieter & calmer, but he doesn't seem to have the raging hormones yet of the older boy & bigger boy. He is the lowest ranking cock.

How do you all work out raising cockerels? Are they jerks until a year old? Would Xander need to be separated for another 6 months? Is this normal teenage cockerel behaviour or is this a sign of a troublesome roo?
I don't want this stress on my hens & pullets, but I also feel like I'm "micromanaging" the flock and worry my interference is possibly making things worse. I also wonder if the fact that there are 4 males it's increasing the competitiveness while I sort it out.
If this is normal teenage cock behaviour I'll stick it out with Xander - (he would be my first pick) & cull the other 2 as early as Monday. But if this is excessive and a concerning sign, (sigh) I'll have to figure out which of the 2 BCM's to keep as a beta. Big early developer Sebastian or quieter Sammy.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mrs. K]

The thing is, it is common for us people to not to want to make the wrong mistake and cull the wrong bird. But that is not the mistake. The real mistake is putting off and not culling them while you try and make up your mind.

I think there are 4 boys? - Cull half of them, wait a week, cull the last one. Removing cockerels often changes the dynamics and behavior of the boys that are left. Sometimes for the better, and sometimes not. Keep your favorite, and the next best. Clear the woods a bit so you can see the trees.

I have a multi - generational flock, added two immature cockerels last summer. everyone seemed to get along, but a neighbor needed a rooster and with 11 hens, I did not feel I needed two, so I sent one of them to her.

Once he was gone, tension that I had not even been aware of left the flock. I have a lot of room, and a lot of experience, with 15 birds, more than likely you could keep 2, but I am thinking 1 would also be enough. Why do you want the beta?

And the other thing is = none of the 4 might work. Roosters are a crap shoot, and you might have to cull all of them. Roosters are just that way sometimes.

Mrs K

 

[16 and me]

Thanks Mrs. K.
I would like a beta for 2 reasons. I have a 2 hens that just won't mate with the Alpha, because they had been mating with the roo I culled last year. Now they are kept on the outskirts because Alpha allows them to remain, but he just tolerates them. I'm hoping they will choose the beta for me, but with the boys being separated it's hard to assess. Once the cold snap breaks I will give them more time with the new boys & see what comes of it. The other reason: I free range and there are a lot of predators. The birds sometimes end up separating and the old beta was good at covering the group that strayed from the rest of the flock.
I am prepared to cull all 3 for the sake of peace if none of the boys work out, and try again with the next hatch.
I will cull Sebastian tomorrow, and see how it affects the dynamic, and then plan on culling one of the others next week.
I guess what I wonder, is if Xander's behaviour is a sign of impending bad behaviour or if it may subside when teenage hormones settle down.

 

[LaFleche]

I would separate Xander and Sammy leaving Sebastian with the flock and wait a few weeks to see how he will get along with the flockmaster and the hens.

In case he starts fights and causes stress, I would separate him as well and give Sammy a chance.

I would not want to keep Xander as he appears too aggressive and has similar genetics to the top rooster and I would want the genetics to be spread broader for reasons of health, productivity and robustness.

 

[16 and me]

I would not want to keep Xander as he appears too aggressive and has similar genetics to the top rooster and I would want the genetics to be spread broader for reasons of health, productivity and robustness.

I'm afraid you're right about Xander. Good suggestion about allowing Sebastian to remain among the flock without the other cocks and give him a chance to prove himself, and then with Sammy if Sebastian is a stressor. Thank you LaFleche!

 

[Mrs. K]

I guess what I wonder, is if Xander's behaviour is a sign of impending bad behaviour or if it may subside when teenage hormones settle down.

You really cannot tell...yet, what I think I am hearing is that you planned on keeping that boy and ARE picking up some bad vibes, and are second guessing yourself. Personally, I suppose over the years, I have had 10-12 roosters, maybe more. Never have I had one that really outgrew bad behavior. However, there is really no way of knowing unless you keep him alive.

When people post that they do, I think they have learned to live with him, in ways I would not. To each his/her own way of doing things. Adding a new rooster from someone else's flock is a great way to add diversity of genes to your flock.

Thing is, roosters are cheap and plentiful, get a good one. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for a lot of people. Sometimes you get a wonderful rooster that you raised up, often times you don't.

Do not keep anything you are not in love with, you might consider culling the two hens that don't stick with the flock. Plan on hatching out new chicks. Really I think you get the best flocks if you don't think of them as forever friends, but rather as creating a harmonious healthy flock of birds.
Mrs K

 

[Mrs. K]

I would like a beta for 2 reasons. I have a 2 hens that just won't mate with the Alpha, because they had been mating with the roo I culled last year. Now they are kept on the outskirts because Alpha allows them to remain, but he just tolerates them.

I think you are misinterpreting this behavior. Chickens really do not have that long of memory. And they really have very limited loyalty and none at all to a bird that is no longer there. Those are human traits, not chicken traits.

I do think that they may not be submitting to the rooster, and therefore, he does not consider them his problem. Might be due to age or illness, or they are submitting when you don't see. Are they laying eggs?

If they do not submit to your top rooster, I don't see them submitting to a new rooster either, especially a younger one. I could be wrong, they are chickens, and do crazy things. But generally the urge to belong to the flock is very strong, and the urge to be with the dominant rooster is also very strong. I am not sure what, but I think it is another issue.

Mrs K

 

[16 and me]

Adding a new rooster from someone else's flock is a great way to add diversity of genes to your flock.

This is a very good point, @LaFleche mentioned also. I definitely agree!

Might be due to age or illness, or they are submitting when you don't see. Are they laying eggs?

They're both 2 1/2 so age should not be a factor. They are also both dominant - they are both Black Copper Marans (possibly crosses) I'm not sure if the breed itself tends toward dominant? As for laying - they were both laying 3-4 eggs per week. When their roo was culled, Rebecca stopped altogether, and it was not seasonal molt. Rachel continued laying. Some of my hens are starting up laying again with the soltice behind us, but neither of them yet. I'll have a better idea come early February when their laying picks up.

 

[Mrs. K]

I still think that is a coincidence. Generally speaking, (kind of sort of as they are animals and who really knows) I think that dominant hens refuse less dominant roosters, roosters that are young, tend to be less dominant. An older alpha rooster should be covering them.

It will be interesting to see with the spring if they are laying fertile eggs.

 

[Red Mangrove]

Personally, I suppose over the years, I have had 10-12 roosters, maybe more. Never have I had one that really outgrew bad behavior. However, there is really no way of knowing unless you keep him alive.

I had an Ameraucana cockerel once that was my only male at the time. He was a monster. I then dropped off a Cubalaya rooster here and suddenly the Ameraucana became a perfect gentleman. It seems like the notion of competing for females instead of just violently taking them straightened his behavior out

That's the only time I've seen dramatic behavioral change in a rooster though. Typically as you said, they're either good or bad and nothing changes that

The Cubalaya rooster came here and spent his first 3 hours sitting on eggs to help the hens out