Chronic weak egg problem (thin shells, or no shells). How to fix??

[Malpower]

Hey feathersnuggles!

Well, as we've discussed before -- your ongoing problems from ugly eggs, shell-less to good and back again, nearly mirror what has been going on with Lucy in last couple of months -- your girl is a "mutt" and Lucy is a NHRed -- but both bred for high productivity, no? Makes sense that this could cause problems we're seeing -- I don't really know that much about chickens, am new to them really, but know the problems that come about breeding purebred dogs (no, I didn't breed dogs myself!). And it's interesting to see that so many others have similar problems with their hens. Maybe those of us that have smaller flocks that are basically pets to us, we just notice these shell-less eggs and other things more than we would if we had big flocks where when problems arise they often get "stewed."

Added note to the continuing saga of Lucy -- I may be crazy but she doesn't seem to be so Alpha today and is far less aggressive and competitive -- I felt feeding her the 1.5 dose of calcium syrup on bread or in yogurt each day would be a piece a cake cuz the other girls are so interested and she'd rush to gobble it down before they got their little beaks on it -- today she just doesn't care if they want it or not, she's lost interest in being "me first" and she hasn't humped her sisters for some days now either!!

I'm assuming the Lupron has turned her into a rather meek hen -- yikes! Now trying to figure some way to make sure she gets her calcium dose.

Otherwise the others all laid eggs today except for Lucy, and Baby seems to have given up the idea of going broody, at least for the time being. Fingers crossed about this too!

I'm glad your girl is back to laying good strong eggs -- how many days has that been going on! I sure hope she's back to normal!! Congrats!

Kerry

 

[kayri]

Thanks everyone for the info. Thanks to BYC, without which I'd be crazy trying to figure out what was wrong with my girls!!!

Does it make sense to worry that if she is really going to lay shell-less eggs until the next molt, which may be in the fall, that she could be getting too much calcium, if it is not going into her eggs? She is still the first at the yogurt-oatmeal mix and eats a good amount of that every morning while the rest investigate the corn cobs leftover pasta etc. . .

It is also nice to know Feathersnuggles that sometimes they turn it around by themselves without a forced molt or broodiness.

Kay

 

[Malpower]

Kayri, I could be misunderstanding you entirely, but I'm probably doing sort of the opposite of what you're doing cuz from what my vet told me, the reason my Lucy has been laying shell-less, deformed, or thin shelled eggs is because she was not getting enough calcium -- that's why she was given the calcium shots and why I'm giving her the calcium syrup every day -- and why she got the Lupron shot to turn her egg laying hormones off -- because she wasn't getting enough calcium, she was getting too thin and they thought calcium was being taken from her body/bones to try to create eggs, or the shells. Not laying is giving her a chance to put on weight and also, hopefully, start taking on good amounts of calcium, without putting what she has into eggs, since she was obviously so depleted. Since she hasn't been one to molt or go broody and it didn't seem wise to wait to see if she might at some point, this Lupron shot is supposed to take the place of that and maybe even make her molt in the process, but whether she molts or not, it's to hopefully just get her back on track health and "calcium-wise." Considering all that, vet didn't think it would be wise, at least in our case, to just let her continue with the shell-less, thin shelled eggs. I was really worried about her health since she weighed less than she did when she was a pullet a year and a half ago.

Also, I was told by vet that it would be hard to give them too much calcium, that they would throw off any excess. I'm assuming this is so, and hope someone will tell me if it isn't.

 

[Malpower]

Note to feathersnuggles!

With the fear that I might be belaboring this calcium thing, I know you've been interested in what I've been finding out -- taking those notes -- so I wanted to pass the latest info along to you after talking to the vet a few minutes ago.......

Lucy's been a little out of it today, kind of lethargic, and I've had trouble getting her to eat the usual bread or yogurt with the calcium syrup on/in it, been following her about all day trying to tempt her. Vet says that people often aren't aware just how serious/important it is to get lots of calcium into the hens when they've been having these problems, which of course are made obvious to us with the shell-less or thin-shelled eggs. She said that all kinds of organs in the hen's body can be quickly and badly affected by the lack of calcium and it's terribly important Lucy gets the daily dose PLUS anything else calcium-laden I can get her to eat: kale which has the highest calcium content I gather, mustard greens, yogurt, cheese, etc. To put the liquid calcium on greens or in cottage cheese but make sure she gets a good dose every day, indefinitely. She said it doesn't matter if the other hens eat it too, but to make sure Lucy gets more than enough.

Vet didn't think the Lupron was making Lucy tired and responsible for loss of appetite but thought she wasn't feeling well because the lack of calcium was having a bad effect on her body in general.

Of course, this really worried me, especially since I've always given the girls lots of greens (twice a day), yogurt, cottage cheese, and other calcium-rich things on a daily basis. Obviously what has seemed a lot or at least adequate to me, hasn't been enough, at least in Lucy's case.

Also, vet said that the shell-less and thin-shelled eggs were a very frequent occurrence around here and that they have a big call for the Lupron shots for hens on a regular basis. I live fairly near Petaluma which used to be "The Chicken Capital of the World" (well, so they advertised back in the day

)

I hope some of this latest info is a help to you. I'm a bit alarmed myself and off to try to make up a concoction that Lucy will scarf down!

Kerry

 

[feathersnuggles]

Thanks so much, Kerry! And I will add notes about this to my collection of such.

I think I will give my own hens, especially the one, even more extra calcium treats based upon your vet's opinion. Since my scare with all those soft shells earlier this year, I already favor the calcium-rich treats (and protein-rich) over anything else for the flock. I do give them their occasional garden strawberries which they love, and sometimes a little bit of whole grain treats.

Seems to me, this condition has to be genetic, or related to the laying prior to the hen's first hard molt. Something about their system not taking up calcium very well gets "repaired" during the molt?

Did your vet say you'll have to give Lucy lots of extra calcium for the rest of her life? Or just until she molts and starts producing better eggshells?

I'm also curious...do you put raw ACV into their water? I do. I really feel it helps balance their systems to better absorb the nutrition they consume. Including calcium. It's one thing to consume calcium; it's another thing to actually utilize it.

Keep us posted on Lucy's recovery. I'm sorry she's not feeling up to her usual spark.

 

[kayri]

Hi Kerry, from the thread i was under the impression that the shell-less eggs were because of some physiological thing in her body, not really a lack of calcium. Maybe it is exacerbated by the lack of bio-available calcium. Whatever the problem, it wouldn't be set right until she molted, went broody or something else got triggered in her body. My girl does get a lot of calcium- free-choice crushed oyster shell, yogurt every morning, but I am willing to believe that maybe it is not enough with her strange physiology. With her, it really started 2 weeks after the fox trauma, so I can't help wondering if it is connected.

I will up her calcium as much as I can, crush up some tums, call tomorrow about the calcium glubionate. thanks for all of your advice.


Hope you girl does better and that Lupron shot really sets her right. I'll keep checking this thread for my updates.

Kay

 

[Malpower]

Hi Ladies!

Well, I'm just surprised that even though I've always given the hens a lot of calcium in their food on a daily basis, that so much more seems to be needed. On top of all the cheeses, yogurt, greens and of course laying crumbles with extra oyster shell, plus extra oyster shell in a dish, etc, etc -- with the ugly eggs advent I recently added in oyster shell flour (to coat feed in case they're not picking up the crushed shell), ground up egg shells (your tip feathersnuggles), calcium drops in their water -- then added to that since last week the liquid calcium syrup (and of course Lucy got that calcium injection too). They get lots of other veggies on a daily basis from tomatoes and blueberries, to banana bits, wheat grass, a bit of whole wheat bread, meal worms both live and dried, and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot. They eat well!

Yes, I put ACV in their water too and have done from almost the beginning. I also toss the food grade DE on their feed, as well as around inside the coop for bugs -- at least their fecal lab this week was non-parasitic, maybe the DE and/or ACV have helped there.

Ya know, vets didn't mention that the egg problem could be genetic, I guess the only thing we know for sure is that Lucy started laying jumbo eggs, her first on March 10, 2009 when she was 7 months old, and she's not taken more than a day or so off since -- that's about 15 months. Since she didn't molt, she didn't have a chance to recharge, recoup lost calcium in egg laying, and so forth. I wondered about her not molting last fall/winter but was told by "chicken people" that they don't always molt and not to worry.

Side note: Been concentrating so much on Lucy, but last fall/winter my little EE molted with the rest of the girls and took 2 months or more off laying. But in last few months (April or May perhaps), she also dropped a couple of shell-less eggs from the roost, and laid at least one very deformed egg. Nothing again in past month or so, and she's probably really benefited from all the extra calcium that's been added in to the diet. I've been keeping my eye on her though while worrying mostly about Lucy. So, there's a case of a good molt followed by ugly eggs! ?????

I'm not sure whether the extra calcium syrup for Lucy is for rest of her life or just until she starts laying eggs again, or what -- the vet just said indefinitely right now, and wants me to call every few days and tell them what's happening. I think they're just playing it by ear depending on how it all goes with Lucy whether she'll need another Lupron injection, more calcium injections, whether she just gets a rest for a couple of months, gains some weight and gets good doses of calcium that stay in her body for awhile -- for now vet said just sprinkle the liquid calcium on everything like salad dressing -- be good for all of them!

Kay, I hope you get a chance to at least try out some of the more potent calcium with your girl and just see if it helps or not. At least it probably can't hurt her!

For now, I feel like I have the word CALCIUM in big red letters hanging over the girls and me, a big sign of our main purpose each day -- get that calcium into your little bodies!!

Thanks for the interest and support!

Kerry

 

[kayri]

Hey Kerry,

Checked the local drugstore here, they don't have it, but still haven't had time to call the vet (when they are open and i am not at work). I have crushed up a tums every day into their yogurt/oatmeal. Haven't notice too much of a difference. Shelless egg again today.

Jennspeeps wrote in a while ago and said that her hen also started laying shellless eggs after a trauma, in her hen's case it was a broken toe and an infection, in mine, it was a fox attack and an infection. i am wondering if a trauma has something to do with resetting their systems. I ordered the calcium glubioante on the web and hopefully it will be here soon.

Thanks again for all the great info.

Kay

 

[Malpower]

Hi Kay!

I don't know a thing about trauma but maybe that's what's wrong with your chicken -- I've only seen the cause for shell-less and thin shelled and weird eggs being listed as a problem with calcium -- but I'm sure trauma can have a huge effect on the hens too.

I don't know a lot about the Tums "emergency dose," but advice to me was to just give a couple crushed in yogurt and then not to repeat for a week or so. I don't know if it matters how much or how often it's given....probably something else to ask your vet about. Too bad you can't call your vet and just have a conversation about the problems since you're stuck at work and can't get in to see the vet.

About the calcium glubionate (I'm glad you found it on the net) -- all I can tell you about that is that the vet said for me to give Lucy a syringe filled up to 1.5 each day -- since I can't get it pumped into her beak, I squirt it on bread or cheese or whatever I think she'll eat all of at once and I basically hand feed her. I also spritz some drops of it into the daily tomato/cheese/veggie pan of food I give all the girls. I finally bought some Kale and chop it up and give to the girls twice a day with other greens -- they seem to all love it and I'm going to continue since I was told it was one of the greens highest in calcium.

I must say that all the extra calcium around here has had a great effect on the other girls -- the one who laid small/medium eggs now lays large eggs, and the other two who laid medium eggs, on occasion a large, now are laying xtra-large. I've been quite surprised. They're also laying every day.

Miss Lucy seems much better -- she sits in the nesting box and even comes out loudly announcing she's had an egg, even though she hasn't really laid one. But she seems happier and perkier and I caught her on her "sister's" back yesterday -- so she seems more like her bossy self. I just get up each morning with my fingers crossed that I won't find some weird egg in the coop or have some other crisis!!

Good luck with your girl -- I hope you make some progress or find out something from the vet that will help soon.

Kerry

 

[dmccann]

My 1 hen is now dropping shellless egg at nite from perch, 2 hen gave me a thin shelled egg yesterday, they have cal 24 7 they have never molted at wits end