Coccidiosis in one...does everyone need treatment? Please help.

[Tiegrsi]

I know there are a bunch of threads on this, and I looked through a few, but I didn't find the answer to my question.

I have one hen who I'm pretty sure has Cocci. I noticed yesterday that she was hanging out in a weird spot in the coop where they don't usually sit, and she wasn't laying an egg...just...sitting, while all the others were out scratching around in the run doing normal chickeny things. I thought she was being lazy and shoo'd her into the run. She went and started scratching but seemed a bit...tired I guess.

This morning I found her in that same spot in the coop. I picked her up and noticed that right beneath her was a yellow stain. I moved her into the run where she proceeded to squat and close her eyes like she was going to sleep. I went and checked the "spot" I saw and noticed 2 more in the litter, it was like frothy yellow poop. I immediately closed the coop door so the other birds couldn't go in, and took Gobbles to "Henetentiary" (the sick chicken cage in my barn). I gave her a waterer with ACV in it and ran out and bought some Corid, then added that to the water. She's awake, and even laid an egg, (she did the last 2 days, as well), but she's just sitting. When I put the waterer back in with her she seemed nonplussed by it, but she had obviously drank some while I was out getting the Corid because the water level had dropped some.

I have 2 questions.

I usually do "deep litter" in the run (my chickens don't free range), and 2 days ago I did a clean-out of said run. Is it possilbe I allowed Cocci that was down in the deeper parts of the litter to surface where the birds could get to it? I put sawdust down after the cleanout but of course they just scratch right through it.

Also, Should I treat the rest of the flock with Corid, since I'm pretty sure if one hen got it, they all could, even though the rest don't seem sick at all?

ETA: I cleaned out the entire coop and put fresh bedding down before allowing the other chickens back in it...just in case her "poo" would make anyone else sick.

 

[PirateGirl]

I know this doesn't answer your question, because honestly I don't know. I just wanted to offer one more piece of advice as I have been dealing with an ill chicken. You can add honey or molasses to the water, a tsp per gallon (not an exact science), and this helps give them a little boost, especially if they are not eating much.

Also, from my understanding, coccidiosis is not contagious from one hen to the next and is present in their environment and just because one is susceptible to a certain strain it does not necessarily mean they all will succumb to it. I think in part it has to do with individual immunity and/or stress levels. Because of this, I don't know if treating the whole flock is common practice. On the contrary I am fighting a respiratory infection in my flock which is highly contagious and have opted to treat all because of this. Also I do not know if there is any danger/negative to treating all vs. just treating one. Hopefully others can weigh in on this for you quickly. Good luck.

 

[PirateGirl]

also to consider (sorry I don't know the exact answer), but if you treat all with corid, now you may be without edible eggs for a period of time, I'm not sure if you sell your eggs or just use personally or how important production is for your situation, but check on withdraw time for corid too

 

[Tiegrsi]

also to consider (sorry I don't know the exact answer), but if you treat all with corid, now you may be without edible eggs for a period of time, I'm not sure if you sell your eggs or just use personally or how important production is for your situation, but check on withdraw time for corid too

Thank you. I do eat and sell eggs, but I have a very small flock (just 10 of my birds are actually laying right now), and I have several dozen eggs that I can use from the past 2 weeks...as far as sales go I sell mostly to friends and they will understand if I need a couple of weeks to replenish.

 

[Tiegrsi]

Can anyone tell me if I should treat the whole flock with Corid? I'd rather lose out on eggs for a couple of weeks than lose any more babies. I just got over losing one last month to a long bout of recurring sour crop...I can't stand the idea of losing any more!

UPDATE:

Sadly, Gobbles passed away this morning. At some time in the night she had laid a thin shelled egg, and it had broken underneath her. I took her out of the cage to clean her and it up, and I think the stress of being moved was too much...she must have been very close when I went out to check on her.

I surveyed the coop and the rest of the chickens right after her passing, and although the sun isn't up yet, they were all happy to wander out and start scratching around. I looked over their leavings from last night and everyone's poo looks normal, I didn't see any signs at all of yellow or orange, didn't see anything "loose" that was abnormal.

 

[coach723]

It would be best to get a necropsy done if you can.
Here is a list of labs by state: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf
Here is a link to some pictures and explanation of different droppings which might help: http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/02/whats-scoop-on-chicken-poop-digestive.html
There are several possibilities for yellow foamy or slimy droppings, cocci being one. Could also be viral/bacterial infection, or kidney problems, or worms.
If you suspect cocci and see another sick bird or abnormal droppings, see if your vet will do a fecal float test. Many will do the test even if they don't treat birds. That would confirm or eliminate cocci or worms as an issue.
I'd watch the other birds closely to see if anyone else starts to show any symptoms and the proceed from there.
If you have another get sick and it's cocci, I generally treat the whole flock since they have all been exposed. Corid is pretty safe.
On occasion I have also treated individual birds in isolation. Kind of your call based on what is going on.
I always follow treatment with vitamins and probiotics for several days.
There is no egg withdrawl period for Corid. It is not an antibiotic, it is a thiamine blocker, which starves the cocci and they die.
Hope this helps.

 

[Tiegrsi]

It would be best to get a necropsy done if you can.
Here is a list of labs by state: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf
Here is a link to some pictures and explanation of different droppings which might help: http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2012/02/whats-scoop-on-chicken-poop-digestive.html
There are several possibilities for yellow foamy or slimy droppings, cocci being one. Could also be viral/bacterial infection, or kidney problems, or worms.
If you suspect cocci and see another sick bird or abnormal droppings, see if your vet will do a fecal float test. Many will do the test even if they don't treat birds. That would confirm or eliminate cocci or worms as an issue.
I'd watch the other birds closely to see if anyone else starts to show any symptoms and the proceed from there.
If you have another get sick and it's cocci, I generally treat the whole flock since they have all been exposed. Corid is pretty safe.
On occasion I have also treated individual birds in isolation. Kind of your call based on what is going on.
I always follow treatment with vitamins and probiotics for several days.
There is no egg withdrawl period for Corid. It is not an antibiotic, it is a thiamine blocker, which starves the cocci and they die.
Hope this helps.

Thank you for answering.

I already buried her. I don't have the money or the traveling ability to have a necropsy done. The lab listed for my state on there is about 3 hours away.

Her poo looked like the diarrhea one in color but the consistency was very watery with some more solid pieces. Her last poo was completely liquid. There was no blood in it, but I've read a bit on Cocci and saw that sometimes there won't be any.

Since this killed her so quickly, even after I had started treatment, (she was only showing signs of sickness for 2 days, and only having abnormal feces for 1), I really don't want to have to wait until I see signs of another sick bird...but I also don't want to have to treat everyone if it's unnecessary. Are eggs still safe to eat if they have a Cocci infection, whether or not they are being treated with Corid? I've read that you can still eat their eggs while treating them, but I would be concerned that some of the Cocci protozoa could get into the egg. I saw that high heat can kill them, but even though we always cook our eggs thoroughly the idea of one of my kids getting this stuff seriously bothers me.

For now, I've given them water with ACV in it, and I'm going to give them some garlic with their "treats" today.

Thanks, again, for the info you've given me. I will certainly be looking out for any more concerning behavior or droppings. Hopefully the others will be more immune or otherwise not have any issues at all.

 

[coach723]

Some states have free or very low cost necropsy options, and you can ship the bird if it's been preserved correctly. Just more options to check for, to maybe use in the future.
You can also learn to do it yourself (many people find it difficult to do this with a pet) and look for obvious abnormalities in organs, etc. You just will not have any pathology reports on specific virus or bacteria.
If you have a vet that will do a fecal float test, you could call them and ask for a test on another bird to just see if there are any cocci present (the mere presence does not indicate infection, but it will tell you at least if you have it in your environment) and would rule out/or in other common parasites also.
I have cocci in my soil and have occasional out breaks. I have never withheld eggs for that at all, having said that, I don't use the eggs from a visibly ill bird that is sick with anything. Many times with a really sick bird, they aren't going to be laying anyway. My most recently sick with cocci bird did not start laying again until about 7 days after treatment. If I treat the whole flock for prevention, I don't withhold eggs. If it is indeed cocci, it's possible that it could be in any, all, or none of your birds digestive tracts. They will build resistance and it can be there and not make them sick. It's only when the numbers explode to a point that it's too much for the birds system to handle, then they get sick. This can sometimes happen in birds that are weakened by something else. It's the biggest risk for young chicks, and older birds with weaker immune systems.
It's also possible that cocci had nothing to do with what happened, or was secondary to something else. She could have had internal laying issues, or other illness or infection that caused the soft shelled egg.
I'm sorry for your loss, and hope it's an isolated one.

 

[Tiegrsi]

Thank you Coach. I will call my vet (who doesn't "do" chickens" lol) and see if they will do fecals for me. Hopefully it won't happen again, but if it does, I am not beyond doing some sort of necropsy myself...after all, I originally got these birds for eggs AND meat...not much different than dressing one for dinner, I suppose. Not sure I would know exactly what to look for, but certainly I know what HEALTHY internal organs look like and I would be able to tell if the problem was in the liver or the stomach or something.

Most of my flock is about a year old, but I do have "teenagers" and babies on the property in separate areas. None of them have shown any signs of sickness, either.

 

[coach723]

I know, my vet 'doesn't do birds' either.
Here is a link with info ** Warning Graphic Photos* on doing your own necropsy: http://vet.uga.edu/oldvpp/programs/afvet/attachments/how_to_necropsy_a_bird.pdf
If you are familiar with what is normal, then abnormal usually stands out.