colic - need advice

[birdbrain5]

i have a horse showing mild signs of colic. i had this about 2 weeks ago two with another horse, the weather is up and down a lot lately and my horses live outside so its not like they come into a warm cozy barn at night when the temp drops off. trouble is, she got out this AM so i dont know if she got into anything, and they were all running around quite a bit. so it could be a few things that set it off. i thought it could be choke at first because she has a few times with grain, so i soak it now. but she didnt get her grain yet before i noticed this so i dont see how she would have choke, she never has from anything else. plus nothing is running from her nose. so im quite positive its colic, not much for gut sounds either. id like to try treating this before i have a vet out, so please dont reccomend that, i will know when its time to have one out. shes standing now, but when i tired to offer a mash she flipped her lip up at it (which is also what she does when she chokes so thats why i thought at first) she wont eat hay either, just paws at it. i gave a dose of banamine and i went to get some mineral oil, but of course they dont sell it in a huge jug. i only have a pint, i will get more if i need to. i know when the vets tube them they pump a gallon or so into them, but im wondering if i syringe it myself, how much do i really need to give before i wait to see if she will need more? i gave her 140ccs so far, 4 syringes of a 35cc syringe. any advice on other methods i could try? i heard an old timer gave his horse some mixture and i cant remember what it was, warm water and epsom salt or something. she wont eat or drink so whatever she gets into her will have to be syringed. also, i know people have give pink bismol (sp?) any ideas or home remedies you have used?

 

[welsummerchicks]

What symptoms of colic does the horse have? Why do you suspect the horse could have colic?

When would you call the vet?

Most of the guidelines people give on these bb's, means people wait until the horse is shocky, membranes injected, the animal is so sick it can't be saved. Calling earlier than that, results in a cheaper vet call, less costly treatment and less pain and risk for the animal.

Suggestion, what I would do: take my horse's pulse, heart rate and respiration rate, do not allow the horse any concentrates, grain, beet pulp, treats, etc. Some cases benefit from picking at a little grass. I would not give an emetic or laxative. I would walk my horse in hand for one hour in a quiet area. Retake pulse, heart rate and respiration at the end of the hour. See if there is any improvement. If signs have worsened call the vet at that point and schedule a trip. Continue to walk the horse and take PHR til the vet arrives.

Giving oil by a mouth syringe generally has no effect. The vet uses a very long tube to get the treatment down to where the problem is; a mouth syringe generally will not do that. Pink stuff the same as it cannot reach the problem area. The site of the problem is generally very well out of reach of these things and if the gut is not working properly there is a very long amount of gut in front of the problem and these things will not get to it.

Most vets will say, 'sure, if it makes you feel better', but it is very unlikely to make a difference.

If it was me, if I gave banamine, I would repeat the walking and taking PHR for several hours until the banamine wears off, so I can tell if the horse is still in pain after the banamine wears off.

Check out my more detailed response to 'horse question' thread.

At the first sign of colic, and after about 50 years of being around horses and working at many barns, breeding farms, competing, training, riding with a vet, owning many horses, owning my own barn, and being in on many, many cases of colic - I call my vet.

There is no charge for the call. I give the PHR and describe the behavior and ask the vet what s/he thinks and if it requires a trip now or whether we should wait and see. Generally, the vet will not need to come out and we will agree that I will do the usual:

Walk the horse. Remove all concentrates. Bathe to cool and rehydrate horse off if it's hot. Give banamine. Take vitals once per hour. Call and schedule if signs worsen.

 

[terri9630]

What kind of ground do you have? Have you checked the manure for sand? We have horrible problems with sand colic here. My old vet told me to start feeding the generic Metamucil daily. I was doing the monthly sand treatments and it just wasn't enough. The last time one of our horses coliced my vet told me to give a pound of the Metamucil (weigh it out) a day for 5 days then give half a pound until I quit finding sand in the manure. After that to start with a heaping table spoon daily and keep them on it. Since we started doing this we haven't had a problem with colic where as before we had all four of our horses colicing every couple of months. It was awful and the local vet would just give banamine and oil and it was almost useless.

My horses like the orange flavour but I had to mix it with their feed the first few times I fed. Now they will eat it out of my hand with no feed.
You can get the generic stuff here at Walmart for $7.25 for 3lbs. With 4 horses I use about 6lbs a month as a preventative.

If your giving banamine and it hasn't made a difference you need to call out the vet. If you try to force feed oil by mouth it can get into the horses lungs and kill it.

 

[patandchickens]

It sounds to me like you really don't have much of any idea what's wrong with the horse. (Not telling us the symptoms makes it harder for us to help out with guesses, too... is the horse just dull and not eating and head-hanging, or what? Exactly. Include TPR if possible)

When one does not really have much of any idea what's wrong with the horse, but some of the likely suspects are serious (colic->death, choke->pneumonia->death, and various infectious diseases) it is really by far smartest to have the vet out.

Home treatment only makes sense when it's not a real important problem and/or you know darn well what the problem *is* and know that there are specific home treatments that have a reasonable chance of fixing it.

Not for "ain't doin' right" situations.

JMHO, good luck, best wishes,

Pat

 

[birdbrain5]

well maybe i was too lengthy with my original post. the horse is mildly colicing, shes been down a couple times, but no thrashing or laying flat out. no labored breathing or biting at sides. her gums were slightly pale earlier this morning but now look more pink. she ended up eating the real watery beet pulp i gave her and the small handful of hay, which she wouldnt touch earlier. still no manure yet. shes acting like shes got a sour belly, either she ate something she shouldnt have when she got out or shes just not feeling well for a different reason. im monitoring her but i dont feel the need for a vet yet. i went thru this 2 weeks ago with my gelding (laying down when he usually doesnt, acting blah) and after a dose of banamine and a few laps of walking he passed some manure. im basically asking if mineral oil is only going to be effective if its given by the gallon or if i give less and still see results? and i was asking if anyone knew of any remedies to ease a bad stomache. im just trying to stay ahead of it in hopes it doesnt turn into a full blown colic.

terri - thanks for the suggestion for metamucil, i will be getting some to feed as prevention. we have mostly red clay here and it stays quite packed so im not sure thats the issue but it may be, so i will check her manure if she passes some, shes seperated now but she was out with others so i dont know what piles are hers.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Oops, sorry, I missed that part of your original post.

In a word: don't ever syringe mineral oil into a horse. That is how to give a horse pneumonia, by syringing it in and sometimes it goes down the wrong tube and whoopsie you have a gravely ill horse.

Mineral oil must ONLY be given by tubing, and then only by someone with the appropriate experience to make ABSOLUTELY D*MN SURE the tube is in the right place i.e. tummy not lungs. Usually that means: the vet.

If you really want to home treat this, and if her TPR are normal and she is not dehydrated (actually check all four things, don't go by eyeball impression), you could just give her a little gentle exercise (some hand-walking assuming she's willing, or even a few minutes of jogging on a longe line in some circumstances) and some time and see how it goes. Do recognize though that *if* it does not resolve on its own this way, your odds of a more-expensive vet bill become higher with postponement.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[TheSitcomGirls]

Call your vet....the call is free.

I would never try to put a gallon of mineral oil into a horse with a syringe. If you did manage to get it all into him, and your horse is blocked at any point from his stomach to his mouth, the oil could come back up and then go down into the lungs.

If I have a horse that colics they get one dose of bantamine and walked...if they are not all better by the time it wears off I call the vet. Sometimes he tells me to dose the horse again, sometimes he comes right out. I leave it up to him.

 

[birdbrain5]

i cant read the tube of banamine because its all worn off, so how long until i can give another dose if need be? is it four hours?

 

[welsummerchicks]

If you give one dose and the pain comes back it's time for the vet.

My banamine tubes hold 3 doses of banamine for a horse-sized-horse. Your tubes may be different size, I don't know.

You need to have your horse's weight to know how much banamine to give him.

 

[birdbrain5]

shes not showing pain, shes just not quite right. she was laying down when i went back out, but calm and not flat out. im not sure im being understood the way im intending.. the mare is not full blown colicing, she is just showing some signs that are making me aware shes not quite herself. theres no labored breathing or any sign of distress, just no manure since i seperated her at 10:00 this morning, but then again shes only had a few blades of hay and a small cup of watery beet pulp. she just drank a few gallons of water when i went out after she got up, and now shes nibbling around. shes hanging at the gate wanting to go back in with the others but then i have no way to monitor manure. she seems like shes wanting to eat so id like to give her hay, but im hesitant. i know my mare well enough to notice the slightest of change in her, and thats all im seeing. im not seeing COLIC and the need for a vet. im just trying to catch whatever is going on and nip it in the bud so to speak. i put her on the lunge line to let her jog for just a few minutes. i know how much banamine to give her, im just asking how often she could get it if i wanted to give her another dose.