Colloncas, Huastecs, & Quechuas

[enola]

You can visit Oklahoma and even though you know it's full of Native Americans and has a rich Native culture, you might never know which plants or animals play intrinsic roles in that culture. Heck, I live in Oklahoma, and I would still have to research to find that out, because it's not on billboards, and people aren't standing around telling me all about it on street corners.

As for what SparkyCrows is saying... I'm not sure exactly what is being said. That's the first time I heard the word "Copetona" on this forum, although I didn't read a lot of the earlier posts. I also looked back through your posts all the way to April of 2011 and didn't see anything on this thread since then. What are you suggesting for breeders in the US?

I am kind of wondering what the point was also.

I fully understand that the breeds we have been talking about in this thread sre in desperate need of conservation.......

 

[SparkyCrows]

I am kind of wondering what the point was also.

I fully understand that the breeds we have been talking about in this thread sre in desperate need of conservation...

I guess what I'm saying is two fold.

1) Brace yourself - the South American "breeds" being discussed here are in well maintained flocks held by conscientious "stewards" who recognize they have something unusual. However, these birds are in no way pristine. The lineages of the three breeds specific to this thread have had multiple influxes of new genetic material added even in just the last few years. At best we can say we have carefully cultivated projects.

2) Given that there are multiple conservation entities working on preserving the actual poultry heritage of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America, continuing to use these fabricated names and acting like these project flocks are in desperate need of conservation is nothing short of insulting. Again, at best we have clusters of traits worthy of maintaining.

The point is enjoy your birds but if you're selling them, make sure you're representing them honestly.

 

[Penny Hen]

I guess what I'm saying is two fold.

1) Brace yourself - the South American "breeds" being discussed here are in well maintained flocks held by conscientious "stewards" who recognize they have something unusual. However, these birds are in no way pristine. The lineages of the three breeds specific to this thread have had multiple influxes of new genetic material added even in just the last few years. At best we can say we have carefully cultivated projects.

2) Given that there are multiple conservation entities working on preserving the actual poultry heritage of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America, continuing to use these fabricated names and acting like these project flocks are in desperate need of conservation is nothing short of insulting. Again, at best we have clusters of traits worthy of maintaining.

The point is enjoy your birds but if you're selling them, make sure you're representing them honestly.

You can only be as honest as your own knowledge. You have very good points. German is my second language and I really need to activate the access code for my Spanish Rosetta Stone and get on with learning it. I am VERY PLEASED to hear about the preservationist in South America. The World Trade Organization wishes to rule the world and food and water is the ultimate stranglehold on people.
I am tickled beyond belief to hear that they are being opposed.

Now, I hate to accuse you of being on a High Horse but I am getting a bit of a neck strain. Let's all breath a moment. We are all friends standing around a table that has a newly opened jigsaw puzzle on it. We all dive in and start working on it and we all start forming pieces of this puzzle but we aren't looking at the picture on the box. That would require learning some Spanish. Can be done but it is not an instant process.

So most of us are light on the history given that we have to rely on information published by English speaking writers (making it second, third and fourth hand information: GRAPEVINE EFFECT!). One of our core sources is Resolution. You can read his accounting of how chickens spread from Southeast Asia to South America on his thread. Think of his information like the border pieces of the puzzle. That leaves a lot of interior puzzle to cover. You have information that is not represented on the borders of the puzzle. You have apparently managed some translations from Spanish. So none of us have run into a strain of South American birds called Copetona. PLEASE TELL US MORE!

This is brand spanking new information and we WANT to know!

 

[enola]

A dark hen and roo

Grannychick this is a rooster that I would like to have chicks from

 

[enola]

My Colloncas chick hatched in Sept.

What does this rooster look like now ?

 

[Kyzmette]

I guess what I'm saying is two fold.

1) Brace yourself -  the South American "breeds" being discussed here are in well maintained flocks held by conscientious "stewards" who recognize they have something unusual. However, these birds are in no way pristine.  The lineages of the three breeds specific to this thread have had multiple influxes of new genetic material added even in just the last few years.  At best we can say we have carefully cultivated projects.

2) Given that there are multiple conservation entities working on preserving the actual poultry heritage of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America, continuing to use these fabricated names and acting like these project flocks are in desperate need of conservation is nothing short of insulting.  Again, at best we have clusters of traits worthy of maintaining.  

The point is enjoy your birds but if you're selling them, make sure you're representing them honestly.

1) Brace yourself I haven't read all of the threads related to these breeds, but I've read a small amount, and even in the small amount I've read, the influx of new genetic material has been an ongoing topic of conversation. Also, since you don't know any of these stewards, you have no idea of the actual state of their flocks, or where those flocks came from. Maybe you should consider learning about your audience before lecturing them.

2) Not a single conservation group in the US has a problem with people who actually want to try to help. Are you saying the conservation groups in South America do? Are you sure we're insulting them? Or are you perhaps imagining that on their behalf? Thank you for being such a great spokesperson for them. I know they must appreciate it.

 

[Grannychick55]

What does this rooster look like now ?

I will take a pic tomorrow and post it . The pic of the roo is one that Yashar sent me . The young one is looking like him. I like the SA breeds I think Yashar has a lot of knowledge about these breeds and he does not say they are pure anything .Anyone who has read his thread knows he does not try to represent them as something they are not .

 

[MA Mama]

1) Brace yourself I haven't read all of the threads related to these breeds, but I've read a small amount, and even in the small amount I've read, the influx of new genetic material has been an ongoing topic of conversation. Also, since you don't know any of these stewards, you have no idea of the actual state of their flocks, or where those flocks came from. Maybe you should consider learning about your audience before lecturing them.

2) Not a single conservation group in the US has a problem with people who actually want to try to help. Are you saying the conservation groups in South America do? Are you sure we're insulting them? Or are you perhaps imagining that on their behalf? Thank you for being such a great spokesperson for them. I know they must appreciate it.

Agreed. There isn't any actual evidence these flocks came from South America versus being made here. I personally love believing they are native landraces. But there isn't REALLY anything to back that up, besides the word of ONE yes I said ONE man.

 

[Penny Hen]

Agreed. There isn't any actual evidence these flocks came from South America versus being made here. I personally love believing they are native landraces. But there isn't REALLY anything to back that up, besides the word of ONE yes I said ONE man.

Well that is easy to fix. Just takes having the costs of about 5 to 10 DNA tests done on a sample population of the birds we have here. Then comparing them to DNA of birds that are from South America. Dr. Phil Sponnenberg who works with The Livestock Conservancy (formerly ALBC) would be who could tell you what you need to collect and who it needs to be sent to. I believe that there is South American chicken DNA already collected and on record. I it was done recently when they were using chicken genetics to prove human migration from Southeast Asia to South America. Dr. Sponnenberg would most probably know of the study and who/how to get the gene profiles that can be used to compare to the birds here in the U.S.

Now MA Mama, just for my clarification, which flock of birds balances on the word of one man?

 

[MA Mama]

Well that is easy to fix. Just takes having the costs of about 5 to 10 DNA tests done on a sample population of the birds we have here. Then comparing them to DNA of birds that are from South America. Dr. Phil Sponnenberg who works with The Livestock Conservancy (formerly ALBC) would be who could tell you what you need to collect and who it needs to be sent to. I believe that there is South American chicken DNA already collected and on record. I it was done recently when they were using chicken genetics to prove human migration from Southeast Asia to South America. Dr. Sponnenberg would most probably know of the study and who/how to get the gene profiles that can be used to compare to the birds here in the U.S.

Now MA Mama, just for my clarification, which flock of birds balances on the word of one man?

For sure any of the Olmec varieties... find something written about them by anyone but Kermit. Or who got their info from Kermit.