Comparison of 3 Nutrena Feeds

[BonnieBlue]

HELP!

I had two young pullets lay during the night, probably first eggs (I've had two new eggs from them so far, both were peewee size, 1.3 ounces.)

This morning under the pullet's area of the roosting bar, one egg had paper thin shell, the other was shell-less. Something is going on. I can only think not enough calcium, that they are not eating enough oyster shell. It is a bag I got last spring, but I keep it dry in an air tight container, and it shows no mold or anything.

I am going to go get a layer feed today and change out. I am thinking the higher protein one, and adding manna pro omega egg maker to it to up the calcium and vitamins.

Are there any other suggestions? I have noticed the oyster shell is scooped out of the feeder and everywhere, but the two older ones have always done that. Should I be safe and get a new bag of oyster shell?

I have never been more dejected and disheartened than I am right now, and I need advice to make sure I have a solid enough plan.

@Mother of Chaos
@Ridgerunner
@thecatumbrella
@MysteryChicken
@FunClucks

 

[FunClucks]

HELP!

I had two young pullets lay during the night, probably first eggs (I've had two new eggs from them so far, both were peewee size, 1.3 ounces.)

This morning under the pullet's area of the roosting bar, one egg had paper thin shell, the other was shell-less. Something is going on. I can only think not enough calcium, that they are not eating enough oyster shell. It is a bag I got last spring, but I keep it dry in an air tight container, and it shows no mold or anything.

I am going to go get a layer feed today and change out. I am thinking the higher protein one, and adding manna pro omega egg maker to it to up the calcium and vitamins.

Are there any other suggestions? I have noticed the oyster shell is scooped out of the feeder and everywhere, but the two older ones have always done that. Should I be safe and get a new bag of oyster shell?

I have never been more dejected and disheartened than I am right now, and I need advice to make sure I have a solid enough plan.

@Mother of Chaos
@Ridgerunner
@thecatumbrella
@MysteryChicken
@FunClucks

Okay, first, take a deep breath. Let it out slowly. Do that a couple more times. It is going to be okay.

First eggs for new layers are often wonky. It can take them a few months to get all systems up and running properly, so to speak. It doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the way you are caring for them, just that they are figuring things out. A few fragile shells and/or shell-less eggs are not uncommon. Now, if it becomes a habit or a pattern with them, then it's time to look at things further. But a one-off or two is usually not a big cause for concern.

If you want to buy new oyster shell, you can certainly do so. I'd suggest getting a different shape - flake instead of rock, if rock is what you have. The birds don't care so much about whether it's clean or dirty, but they sometimes do have opinions on the shape. [Mine have definite opinions on the size - they pick out what they want and leave the slightly larger chunks, but eventually it all gets eaten.]

Layer feed is a fine idea. I would definitely get the highest protein one you can find. So you're looking for somewhere around 3.5-4% calcium and 17% and up protein. Some brands make 18% protein layer feed. [Technically, 16% and up is considered good enough, but I give mine higher protein for better long term health. I don't change out my flock every two years, but am hoping for a longer healthy life for mine, so higher protein suits my preferences.]

Or you can feed 20% protein chick starter or all-flock feed (flockraiser), and continue doing calcium rocks/oyster shell on the side.

It was hard to see the back label of the manna pro omega egg maker, but from what I could tell, it looks to have very similar composition to a high protein layer feed. You could add some of it to your flock, I don't think it will hurt anything. But I also don't know that you need it, as long as you are feeding a high protein layer feed or high protein all flock with calcium on the side.

If you really want to dig into feed options, Kiki has a wonderful spreadsheet that she has tagged in her signature block. Just search up one of her posts, and there's a wealth of information there.

 

[BonnieBlue]

Okay, first, take a deep breath. Let it out slowly. Do that a couple more times. It is going to be okay.

First eggs for new layers are often wonky. It can take them a few months to get all systems up and running properly, so to speak. It doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with the way you are caring for them, just that they are figuring things out. A few fragile shells and/or shell-less eggs are not uncommon. Now, if it becomes a habit or a pattern with them, then it's time to look at things further. But a one-off or two is usually not a big cause for concern.

If you want to buy new oyster shell, you can certainly do so. I'd suggest getting a different shape - flake instead of rock, if rock is what you have. The birds don't care so much about whether it's clean or dirty, but they sometimes do have opinions on the shape. [Mine have definite opinions on the size - they pick out what they want and leave the slightly larger chunks, but eventually it all gets eaten.]

Layer feed is a fine idea. I would definitely get the highest protein one you can find. So you're looking for somewhere around 3.5-4% calcium and 17% and up protein. Some brands make 18% protein layer feed. [Technically, 16% and up is considered good enough, but I give mine higher protein for better long term health. I don't change out my flock every two years, but am hoping for a longer healthy life for mine, so higher protein suits my preferences.]

Or you can feed 20% protein chick starter or all-flock feed (flockraiser), and continue doing calcium rocks/oyster shell on the side.

It was hard to see the back label of the manna pro omega egg maker, but from what I could tell, it looks to have very similar composition to a high protein layer feed. You could add some of it to your flock, I don't think it will hurt anything. But I also don't know that you need it, as long as you are feeding a high protein layer feed or high protein all flock with calcium on the side.

If you really want to dig into feed options, Kiki has a wonderful spreadsheet that she has tagged in her signature block. Just search up one of her posts, and there's a wealth of information there.

Thank you.

I know that first eggs can be hit or miss, but on top of the older hen, I just got totally dejected. Pretty much a feeling of what am I doing wrong. Thanks for the reality check.

I don't see flake listed at tractor supply, so I am going to my local feed store to look. I am also going to add what few shells I have saved into their oyster shell. The older girls seemed to eat that readily last year when mixed in.

Even tho I will be adding a few chicks every year or two, I want to give my flock longevity of health. I am a "owe it to God's creatures in your trust to give them the best care possible" type person.

This is the nutritional analysis of the Manna Pro Egg Maker:

It looks like it just adds a boost of a lot of things. Which I am all for right now if it gets everyone on the right track.

 

[FunClucks]

Thank you.

I know that first eggs can be hit or miss, but on top of the older hen, I just got totally dejected. Pretty much a feeling of what am I doing wrong. Thanks for the reality check.

I don't see flake listed at tractor supply, so I am going to my local feed store to look. I am also going to add what few shells I have saved into their oyster shell. The older girls seemed to eat that readily last year when mixed in.

Even tho I will be adding a few chicks every year or two, I want to give my flock longevity of health. I am a "owe it to God's creatures in your trust to give them the best care possible" type person.

This is the nutritional analysis of the Manna Pro Egg Maker:
View attachment 4303117


It looks like it just adds a boost of a lot of things. Which I am all for right now if it gets everyone on the right track.

Flake can be hard to find - a lot of folks have to order it off of amazon, but you might find it at your local feed store. Here is the stuff I used last time, it had a good amount of flake in it. My girls don't care much about the shape, so I didn't order it again.

The fat is high in the Manna Pro Egg maker, but as a supplement, it should be all right. As a full-time feed, you want less than 4% fat, I think is the guideline. 4% is on the high end. The Manna Pro Egg Maker has 7%, but that is kind of the point of that supplement, so expected.

I feed all the egg shells I can back to my flock. No need to do anything but crush them a bit. And anytime I get a non-standard egg (something I can't either eat or sell), I immediately feed it back by smashing it into a dog food bowl for my girls. Raw egg is the best treat ever, and they fight over the egg shells. I haven't had problems with egg eaters. I also feed 20% protein all flock, with oyster shell chunk on the side. Used to hide what I was doing when I broke/crushed the eggs into the dog bowl, but my kids weren't doing that, so no point worrying about something that's out of my control. No issues in my flocks to date.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with @FunClucks The internal laying factory is pretty complicated, it sometimes takes a while for a new layer to get all of the kinks out. That is not only putting an egg together correctly but knowing when and where to lay them and even how many yolks to release each day to start that process. I'm amazed at how many get it all right when they start. And the vast majority of those that get it wrong correct the problem on their own within a few days or a couple of weeks.

It sounds like one of yours is having problems. Do you have other hens laying? Are their eggshells OK? If so, then you have an individual hen problem, not a flockwide problem. Personally I don't give every one of my kids medicine if only one is sick. I try to not treat the entire flock for a problem if only one is having the problem. Can you find out which pullet is doing this?

I don't know what is actually going on. My first thought is that a pullet cannot regulate how many yolks she is releasing so she is laying several a day. And she is not regulating the timing of those releases so the eggs are passing through the night. Pullets just starting to lay can have issues with these. Most straighten them out in a week or two but some never do.

I do not see this as a protein problem or a calcium problem. I see it as a new layer problem, hopefully not a permanent problem. I'd give it a couple of weeks before I got too concerned.

The fat is high in the Manna Pro Egg maker, but as a supplement, it should be all right.

The yolk is about 1/3 fat so I don't see a big problem with fat in a Layer feed. Fat is a required nutrient.

 

[BonnieBlue]

I called my local owned feed store and they did not have flake, so I ordered some on Amazon. I also ordered more black soldier fly larve, as that is supposed to be higher in calcium than meal worms, but still a good protein treat. (I was out, so just feeding mealworms in their mash as a treat.) I am also getting a layer feed today.

At this point, I am just going to throw everything. Not overboard in any one area, but with the oyster shell, both will be available if they still need more.

The one 3 year old is the only one to ever have egg problems. When I started with 5 hens, the other four never had problems, even from the beginning. Having approx 40% of the flock do this within 24 hours was a kick.

 

[BonnieBlue]

I agree with @FunClucks The internal laying factory is pretty complicated, it sometimes takes a while for a new layer to get all of the kinks out. That is not only putting an egg together correctly but knowing when and where to lay them and even how many yolks to release each day to start that process. I'm amazed at how many get it all right when they start. And the vast majority of those that get it wrong correct the problem on their own within a few days or a couple of weeks.

It sounds like one of yours is having problems. Do you have other hens laying? Are their eggshells OK? If so, then you have an individual hen problem, not a flockwide problem. Personally I don't give every one of my kids medicine if only one is sick. I try to not treat the entire flock for a problem if only one is having the problem. Can you find out which pullet is doing this?

I don't know what is actually going on. My first thought is that a pullet cannot regulate how many yolks she is releasing so she is laying several a day. And she is not regulating the timing of those releases so the eggs are passing through the night. Pullets just starting to lay can have issues with these. Most straighten them out in a week or two but some never do.

I do not see this as a protein problem or a calcium problem. I see it as a new layer problem, hopefully not a permanent problem. I'd give it a couple of weeks before I got too concerned.


The yolk is about 1/3 fat so I don't see a big problem with fat in a Layer feed. Fat is a required nutrient.

The persistent problem is a 3 year old hen. Today, two new pullets also. (I have 6 young pullets, 20 weeks old today.) My first thought was "I have a problem/i'm missing something".

I am going to go ahead to change to a layer feed so I know they are getting calcium. They'll back off of the oyster shell if they don't need it. But if they aren't eating it, or eating enough, hopefully this will help

 

[BonnieBlue]

Flake can be hard to find - a lot of folks have to order it off of amazon, but you might find it at your local feed store. Here is the stuff I used last time, it had a good amount of flake in it. My girls don't care much about the shape, so I didn't order it again. View attachment 4303134

The fat is high in the Manna Pro Egg maker, but as a supplement, it should be all right. As a full-time feed, you want less than 4% fat, I think is the guideline. 4% is on the high end. The Manna Pro Egg Maker has 7%, but that is kind of the point of that supplement, so expected.

I feed all the egg shells I can back to my flock. No need to do anything but crush them a bit. And anytime I get a non-standard egg (something I can't either eat or sell), I immediately feed it back by smashing it into a dog food bowl for my girls. Raw egg is the best treat ever, and they fight over the egg shells. I haven't had problems with egg eaters. I also feed 20% protein all flock, with oyster shell chunk on the side. Used to hide what I was doing when I broke/crushed the eggs into the dog bowl, but my kids weren't doing that, so no point worrying about something that's out of my control. No issues in my flocks to date.

I ordered the Manna Pro, and I am going to add it at the lowest recommended amounts to what is left of the all-flock in their morning mash. Since mash is a treat, not their main source of food, it won't be a heavy supplement. The layer food will be their main source. I'm glad that nutrena has the higher 20% in a layer food so I don't have to sacrifice protein as their primary. At this point, I'd feel better knowing they are actually getting calcium. Until I can get my security camera's and starlink moved, I don't have cameras in the coop that I can see who with the littles is having issues. (I really need my former house to sell so I can get that stuff moved!)

 

[FunClucks]

I think you have a good, workable plan. Let us know how it goes.

 

[BonnieBlue]

I think you have a good, workable plan. Let us know how it goes.

Thank you. I hope everyone gets leveled out!