Confinement

[Chikenbutwut]

Well, I for one didn't mean to scare her off...as I'm sure many others didn't either. I was just trying to get her to understand the problems associated with confining chickens too tightly.

I grew up on a small farm, was in 4-H that consisted of caring for and showing farm animals, owned a rabbitry and worked in veterinary care. Our pigs were eaten, our rabbits were eaten and the cows were eaten. The majority of these animals were not pets and weren't treated as such, but their needs were still met.

I agree with what Cafarmgirl has stated... There are many here who see their chickens as livestock. That said, regardless whether an animal is considered livestock or considered a pet, it still needs to be housed properly. Otherwise you end up with unhappy and unhealthy animals.

Confining chickens in a small space, as has been said, leads to picking, cannibalism, egg eating, etc. I've helped treat animals that were injured due to improper containment in my work in veterinary care. This is what many of us were trying to get through to the OP, but as she admitted, it's in her family to be stubborn. I think the fact that she was "digging her heals in" and not taking the advice she was given, is why many may have responded they way they did, I don't know.

 

[cafarmgirl]

I also understand that your comments about pets vs livestock were directed at the BYC group as a whole. The implication to me was that, since most of us prefer to house and treat our flocks in a manner most conducive to their natural habits, we somehow do not understand the concept of raising livestock.

There is no reason for the OP to be "scared off". Quite the opposite. I would encourage the OP to stay and especially to read all he/she can on this forum. When you ask a question on a public forum you have to be prepared to hear everyone's response. In this case, most people, myself included, don't think it's a good idea and stated exactly why and the problems that could be encountered. So instead of leaving, maybe talk to more people and get some more ideas, some have already been suggested, as to how the OP can accomplish their chicken keeping plans or to decide if keeping chickens is even the right project for them.

Edited by Staff

 

[bj taylor]

i have seen many people through the years treat livestock w/total disregard for the animal's wellbeing. the animals are things to be used & profited from. i feel that we are stewards of what God gives to us & as such are responsible for the overall wellbeing of any animals we have. that includes animals we are going to eat or profit from.
as far as chickens go - i never had them until a year ago & can't imagine life without them. they are such special creatures with distinct personalities. i can't imagine them in a cage w/a life of nothing more than existence. it would be a true shame.
i want to raise rabbits for meat & haven't figured out how to cage them in such a way that they have quality of life. that's the thing holding me back from having rabbits. in fact i have two metal swing sets & i'm trying to morph them into rabbit pens.

 

[Chikenbutwut]

i have seen many people through the years treat livestock w/total disregard for the animal's wellbeing. the animals are things to be used & profited from. i feel that we are stewards of what God gives to us & as such are responsible for the overall wellbeing of any animals we have. that includes animals we are going to eat or profit from.
as far as chickens go - i never had them until a year ago & can't imagine life without them. they are such special creatures with distinct personalities. i can't imagine them in a cage w/a life of nothing more than existence. it would be a true shame.
i want to raise rabbits for meat & haven't figured out how to cage them in such a way that they have quality of life. that's the thing holding me back from having rabbits. in fact i have two metal swing sets & i'm trying to morph them into rabbit pens.

You can keep them in hutches with ramps leading down to an outside area like you would chickens. Either that or you can cage them and give them time out each day in one of those dog exercise pens or some other type of pen. Just be sure you're there to supervise them from predators if your pen isn't secure. We had our rabbits in large cage systems, but others were in hutches with an area at the bottom for them to play in. The ones that were in the cage systems were rotated to be let out into straight stalls (that were once for horses, but my horses were moved to box stalls once they were built) where they got to play around. They had toys and treats in there. 130 rabbits is the most I had at one time, but many of those were sold off to others as show rabbits, with us keeping the ones we wanted, and sold as meat rabbits and as pets. The rabbits we sold as pets and for meat never stayed very long, only our show rabbits did.

Be sure if you're building a pen where your rabbits can be out on their own, that it's strong so predators can't get to them. We had a roaming dog get into our hutches and get two of my rabbits when I was a little kid.

Be sure too that the fencing doesn't have gaps where racoons can reach in and get to them.

If you need anymore advice, feel free to PM me.

 

[Judy]

The first post in this thread gives a link to a Merck Veterinary Manual chart, which in turn gives 60 sq. in. as the minimum required amount of space for an adult chicken. We have reviewed this thread and found it to be a valid question and an opportunity for learning.

 

[res]

The first post in this thread gives a link to a Merck Veterinary Manual chart, which in turn gives 60 sq. in. as the minimum required amount of space for an adult chicken. We have reviewed this thread and found it to be a valid question and an opportunity for learning.

I am going to chime in and say that the Merck Vet. Manual min. space requirement is geared toward LARGE COMMERCIAL PRODUCTION operations, not the typical Backyard chicken owner. The 60 sq in is accurate and valid in order to supply the masses of people that purchase/consume food from grocery stores and restaurants. It is not logistically possible to meet those demands using what we, as backyard owners, consider "humane".

I take great pride in raising, hunting or fishing the majority of the food my family consumes, because I do not want to contribute to the raising of animals in 60 sq in. of space. I am only one person, and one family, and my impact on the industry is a drop in the bucket. But, the values I am exposing my children and neighbors to, and the education they are getting on how to raise your own food, is priceless.

 

[Aphrael]

I am going to chime in and say that the Merck Vet. Manual min. space requirement is geared toward LARGE COMMERCIAL PRODUCTION operations, not the typical Backyard chicken owner. The 60 sq in is accurate and valid in order to supply the masses of people that purchase/consume food from grocery stores and restaurants. It is not logistically possible to meet those demands using what we, as backyard owners, consider "humane".

I take great pride in raising, hunting or fishing the majority of the food my family consumes, because I do not want to contribute to the raising of animals in 60 sq in. of space. I am only one person, and one family, and my impact on the industry is a drop in the bucket. But, the values I am exposing my children and neighbors to, and the education they are getting on how to raise your own food, is priceless.

Very well said. That is exactly how I feel on the matter as well. It's a lot like the story about the guy going down the beach throwing starfish back in the water. What we do on a small scale in our own back yards may only be a drop in the bucket compared to the giant factory farms. But it makes a difference to us and to our families and certainly to our flocks. And what's even better is that it is growing and spreading. Maybe eventually the backyard raisers of healthy, HAPPY chickens won't be such a small drop in that bucket.

 

[queenchick16]

Twinwillow, can I ask how old you are?

 

[moody-chicken]

I can't imagine sleeping at night knowing I had any animal cooped up in a tiny confined space, sitting in their own muck and mess and without the space, freedom or enrichment needed to give them some pleasure or comfort in life. I know commercially it is an accepted practice and accepted principles but in a backyard operation surely morality could have a larger influence, an ethical standard could be applied. Money can hardly be made from a backyard flock, so why go to these extremes and so savagely compromise the chickens freedom and livelihood for what will undoubtedly be little profit? I just don't understand the need or the drive to do this and would encourage you to wait until you can afford to give them a better quality of life. That's my opinion. I'm sure your a very nice, considerate and lovely person but it doesn't change the fact that your idea sounds on the outset to be very flawed and of little gain to you or the chickens. No offense intended.

 

[Northie]

This maybe too graphic for some people... If it is I'll remove it...

It may be a strange concept to think of a chicken as "happy" but from the stories I've been told they can be VERY "unhappy". Since we started talking about getting chickens people have told me all kinds of horror stories. My husband has changed his mind, but originally he was very strongly against getting into chickens... I've worn him down and convinced him that this time things will be different, we'll do things better.

This is what my husband had to say about chickens, he grew up out here, this was his childhood experience;

Chickens are savage... They will literally EAT each other alive, they will peck out each others feathers and eyes and tear bloody wounds wide open, they will become plastered with their own waste, become sick and die of infection or disease. They will destroy their own eggs before you can get to them. Without proper housing they will all die in the winter (may not apply). Without proper housing you'll loose your entire flock to a neighbors (or your own) dog who in a bloodlust just can't stop killing until they're all dead.... Then you'll never want chickens again.

Perhaps it would suit some people better to think of them as stressed or unstressed instead of happy or unhappy... Confinement and overcrowding absolutely will cause stress so keep that in mind. There's a difference between surviving and thriving.