Conflicted on Breeding Issues

[blackbirds13]

I am not sure if this is the correct forum but it is where I spend most of my time on BYC and is my cause du jour.
I have spent a lot of money on chickens, more than I ever thought in my life I would spend on a bird, much less a chicken. I've balked at paying big money for shoes or handbags (my 'former' addictions) but found a way to get these fancy-dancy birds that I cannot find around here in New Hampshire. I have 4 Chocolate bantam Orpingtons that my husband would really prefer I sell off I think. If my only rooster turns out to have red leakage I should not breed him is what I have read - he is too young to tell right now - there is NO way my husband's gonna go for me buying another and I will breed him if I have them next year. It is so frustrating and almost makes me want to stop keeping certain breeds if it looks like I will have to invest tremendous sums of money to get the 'correct' bird just to be able to reproduce and grow my own flock. I almost did not keep Marans this year after my initial experience with them this past year, simply because I find the joy of keeping the birds sometimes nullified by the need to have the perfect breeding quality to pass on and the pressure to re-home and re-buy. I am not a 'breeder' per se, I just enjoy having chickens. I may not want just any chicken from a hatchery but a nice quality bird but at the same time I do not have the resources to constantly turn over parts of my flock and my husband will not put up with that expenditure (and stay married to me -

). I want to have a flock that looks nice and perhaps someday show a few birds but I do not want to be so up on the SOP that I have to re-buy what I already have or that I cannot try breeding out my birds' faults myself. I am trying to get a nice starter Legbar flock and am trying to align my birds to the UK standard but I know my birds do have some faults that I will have to work through in time. I just cannot see myself constantly re-homing and then re-buying a bird that cost me over $70+ to purchase and then more funds to ship that I will only get a small portion of that back if I have to resell locally. I am NPIP but not prepared to ship at this time so if my Chocolates, Jubilees, Legbars or Marans have faults or DQ's not many around here will really care and will not pay much even if they were perfect. I have had folks balk at paying $10 on craigslist for my Marans and that I could ask around $30 for a pair of Legbars (not chicks mind you).

Where I live NOONE pays alot for any chicken no matter how imported, heritage or special it is. I know when it comes to selling off my birds locally I will not get close to what I paid for them initially or what I'd have to pay to ship them into the state. I did not buy them to make money but for own pleasure and to be able to sell off my culls or extras and keep my own flocks going without having to buy chickens every year as I am lucky enough to own a bit of land and I am zoned agricultural with little to no restrictions on what I can do. I know that many on here breed, show and sell and I fully understand their desire to keep their breeds top notch but I'm not close to that level and cannot or want to compete at this point. I think if I had spent less on my birds I probably would not feel so strongly conflicted about breeding birds that others advise not to. But I have spent the money but cannot keep respending it to find the perfect starter birds. I re-homed my Marans rooster so that I could get a 'better' one and I so liked that bird - he'd let me pick him up with not a care in the world but I knew he was faulty and I could afford to purchase some chicks and eggs this year. If I the ones I have turn out badly I'm not sure I will pursue this breed much longer than 1 more year. I hope my Chocolate male does not grow any red leakage but if he does no way can I afford another one so I will breed him forward. My legbar rooster had a crooked comb and I was advised not to breed him - I did and he throws straight combs and good crest so I'm glad I did breed him. I have Jubilees coming next week - a pair - so they will be bred no matter what faults they have. I bought the best I can afford.
I am reading about Poultry Breeding and Genetics, my friends and family all think its another one of my crazy life ideas like when I joined the Marine Corps or got my MFA. My dad could not laugh harder at the thought of me in 5 inch high heels running around my poopy pens.
I just feel so frustrated today and needed to rant a bit - sorry.
did not help that the hawk paid me a visit yesterday.

 

[NYREDS]

First of all Semper Fi.
What you're doing will never work out for you. You can't reach the goal you have in mind in a year or two, it takes time & patience.
First of all focus on one breed or two and learn the Standard for those breeds thoroughly. Start with the best stock you can with the knowledge they won't be perfect nor will their first offspring. Cull heavily with the Standard in mind. LINE BREED!!!! Crossing in stock from multiple lines seldom yields a good result.
Be patient. It may take three, four or five years before you start to see the results you're looking for.
Also, if you're really interested in showing some day you might want to think about a breed that's in the American Standard. Breeding toward
the UK Standard is fine if that's where you plan to show but it doesn't make much sense if you plan to show in New Hampshire.

 

[Erin~TheChickenLover]

I understand exactly where you are. Very few of my loved ones support me wanting to breed chickens and I have a love of rare breed poultry(and any chickens for that matter

). I agree with the previous poster on working with just a few breeds. Also, I think it is worth it to build a pen for the extra roosters and birds you don't want to breed. That way you don't have to constantly worry about re-homing them. Try finding stuff that you can recycle to make coops, pens, etc out of to save money. We turned an insulated dog house we got for free into a chicken coop and with paint it actually looks pretty nice. Recycling is a lot of fun for my family and a great way to connect. We turned the play house I used to play in as a kid into a bantam house and it turned out excellent for only $100. Are you selling hatching eggs? Over time, selling hatching eggs can come close to paying for the chickens. You can post them here on BYC as well as Ebay. Bubble wrap the eggs and add the cost of shipping into the asking price. You should find you a breed that you can have fun with. I am working on a sizzle project. It's super fun and allows you to get creative. Sizzles are not particularly rare but they are super cute and very easy to sale. They can even be shown and are judged on the silkie standard. It's a win win for me: fun and show quality birds. Here is what I recommend: since you are really not happy with your marans, sale them and save that money to invest in the chickens that you want to keep and improve on.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

It is easier to know that a bird is good quality, and does not have faults such as leakage, you need to purchase fully matured birds, not chicks or started birds that may or may not develop as you prefer.

As far as what other people have to say about your hobby, ask them how a hobby that you enjoy is any different than one that they prefer? Everyone has different tastes--some people like to golf or tennis, others collect stamps or shoes or figurines, some hunt or fish, some race cars, some sew or make various crafts, etc. Some hobbies are more expensive than others, but the pleasure a person gains from something they enjoy is priceless, and denigrating their source of pleasure is at best mean.

I don't find anything crazy about the idea of joining the marines or getting an MFA. Indeed, both are admirable!

 

[TimG]

It seems to me that you are conflicted by this being a hobby and the thought of recouping your investment. If you approach it as a hobby (which is really the only realistic approach on your scale) it will never pay for itself, much less generate a profit. With all the talk of "re-homing" it also sounds like you are treating your birds as pets and are trying to find a home for all that you produce. From what I have read, you're going to need to cull lots and lots of birds if you are going to try to reach a SOP. I think you'll either need to come to this realization or you'll need to start working with breeds that are considered more livestock (rather than fancy breeds or bantams) where you will have a market (other than the pet market) for unwanted offspring.

 

[blackbirds13]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I was so down yesterday. A lot of what was said I know I should do...and some sounds like my husbands words.

I promised him no more than 3 breeds last fall and again early this spring and intended to work on just Marans and Legbars and was looking for another. I can be a bit obsessive at times I decided on the Jubilees but then saw the chocolates and ....well I know I really should sell them off but I just so love looking at them - they are so adorable that if I can I'd like to keep them. I LOVE the Marans - they are my favorite breed for eggs and roosters and if I ever did show birds those were the ones I would do but that's years ahead in the future. It's just so frustrating at times and I think losing 'Favorite Guy' (splash copper that I had to put down) hurt me more than I expected and I know I got too attached to my faulty roo. The Marans are affordable for me and what I wanted from the start of this crazy chicken hobby so I think I will work on them. I love my legbars and the auto-sexing works for me around here since I can sell pullets from day 1.
I don't mind making coops - My MFA is in sculpture so I am very adept at wood working and can weld and the like. But with my little one time is always the issue.

I will get the pair of Jubilees next week so I will make final decisions after that...more than likely I may sell of a trio of Chocolate Bantam Orpingtons and stick to my original idea.

NYREDS - thank you - I will line breed. I've been indecisive about that but have bought some books and that looks to be the best plan for me. The Marans I can show in the future if I keep and work on them. The rest I use to help beef up my personal knowledge about breeding and genetics as I work on them.

Erin - I have a dog house that I am using as a grow out coop that I could convert into a bantam coop...just need to figure out a winter plan (heated water) and that's a problem for me because I know that it may be more than I can handle. I have thought about selling hatching eggs but just not sure I have the time to invest at this point. My husband seems to think that is an avenue I should pursue so I think I might try it.

Sonoran Silkies - I really do need to remember this is supposed to be fun

TimG - My original intention was not to think of them as pets but I do think you are correct that I really need to get myself used to the idea of culling hard and then doing so. I'm not too concerned about making my money back, rather my concern is that I can only spend so much up front and if I need to re-buy that could be an issue with the DH. I had intended to cull really hard but there was that splash copper rooster that my husband and son loved (Favorite Guy) and I didn't want to breed but I let him grow on me and he messed up my plans and then got sick and I could not cull him myself (I usually do with no problem) and that bothered me tremendously as I really did not want to make pets of them and I think that's the problem with keeping the Chocolates...they are just pure eye candy for me...I know I need to sell them and concentrate on making what I have work for me.

I think I took too much on and got myself all stressed out and with no other chicken-loving friends to really bounce ideas around with ....well, again thanks for giving me ideas and thoughts to mull over.