COONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[danceswithronin]

I'm talking small town, 2-3,000 people. Not city. Neither of the local towns have animal control--if it's needed, it's pretty much the domain of the sheriff. There is a pest control, in the "city" (30 miles away) It's a private business, from 9-8:00, Mon-Fri. I believe they do rats and wasps.

I feel like that's a pretty extreme scenario though. Most people have access to something. Even if it's just driving the trap out to nowhere fifteen minutes outside of town and dumping it. Towns too small to have animal control don't enforce wildlife relocation laws.

 

[sylviethecochin]

I feel like that's a pretty extreme scenario though. Most people have access to something. Even if it's just driving the trap out to nowhere fifteen minutes outside of town and dumping it.

Maybe it's extreme? Don't know. I grew up here. Don't have a ton of experience anywhere else. But I'm pretty sure I'm not unique.

And BTW, I live exactly between two towns (ten miles both ways) so you'd be dumping your problems on my property. I can take it when it's cats; they're useful and generally don't go near the birds. I was happy to receive the box of "Easter Ducks" and the bunnies. The straight-run chicks were enh. I'd be far less pleased if it were raccoons.

 

[chickendreams24]

Some people live in town and can't dispose of a problem animal by shooting it, though. Drowning isn't a pretty way to die, but a problem raccoon or (worse) mink, can get through all but the very best of predator proofing. I'd rather give that animal a cruel death than have it give one of my hens a cruel death.

Okay first adaptation may be a natueal trait but lead is also natural.

I personally hate the thought of drowning something but if I had no alternative I would do it. Now the rats that got into our coop those I might just drown out of spite. Those things a couple years ago killed more than a dozen birds by eating into their vents as they slept or were laying. Ate their insides out leaving dead or sometimes living zombie birds with no insides!

Graphic I know. Try living with it.

Mink are the bane of my existence we've dealt with the same one for a few years now. It seems to come seasonally and unlike many peoples' experiences only kills 1-2 birds a night. The max it ever killed was 3. We've also seen it try and drag off the carcasses to eat. We now tie down any carcasses in sight of the house to try and get the thing but as of yet haven't had any luck. We've seen it on a number of occasions but only when we weren't carrying. I got a shot off once thing jumped and did a flip in the air. Felt sure I got it but it took off and then we saw it again several months later.

Maybe it's extreme? Don't know. I grew up here. Don't have a ton of experience anywhere else. But I'm pretty sure I'm not unique.

And BTW, I live exactly between two towns (ten miles both ways) so you'd be dumping your problems on my property. I can take it when it's cats; they're useful and generally don't go near the birds. I was happy to receive the box of "Easter Ducks" and the bunnies. The straight-run chicks were enh. I'd be far less pleased if it were raccoons.

LoL I'm extreme with you I guess. I grew up in a town of 2000 and we live 5-10 miles away from a couple towns. The nearest town if you can call it that is maybe 600 people. I don't think they bother counting.

Yep that's the problem with moving animals we get stuck with them. I don't mind the cats either and I wouldn't mind some Easter ducklings or bunnies. Straight run chicks wouldn't bother me much except the biosecurity.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to take the risk of causing a rabies outbreak just to rid themselves of a problem animal without guilt.

I've always loved raccoons but it's hard to feel sympathy when they're tearing quail into little pieces to pull them through wire. Having to protect your livestock gives you a different perspective I think.

I agree there needs to be more options for those in towns and cities. But for those in small towns there may be no options except killing the offending animal.

The first animal I ever shot was a raccoon out in broad daylight that had no fear was skinny and scraggly and stumbling around and had killed but not eaten several of my quail it also wasn't afraid of the dogs which is how I first saw it. You bet I got those dogs in the house QUICKLY! It then walked right towards my flock of chickens stumbling as it went. That was it I put it down. I didn't want to risk any more it wasn't afraid of me and although it was foaming at the mouth it clearly wasn't well.

 

[Willowspirit]

Sorry this is going to be long but I think it's worth a read.
I am of a mixed opinion.

I have a lot of experience with wildlife and personally I love wildlife doing wildlife things but some of them have to be killed.

Firstly coops should be as predator proof as possible. It's true.

Secondly if you free range expect that there will be occasional losses from time to time. Cars, Hawks, eagles, coyote, wolf, fox, mink, anything.

However wildlife can become a problem when it no longer fears people and becomes accustomed to unnatural food sources. Chickens, pet food, livestock feeds.

You'd kill a mouse in the house or a rat in the horse feed.

It's no different some animals carry disease and some over populate areas where people have messed up the ecosystem and lessened or eliminated the natural predators.

Some animals can both attack your birds and teach them bad habits. We had a possum that was coming out in broad daylight eating eggs. It took us weeks to figure out why our flock "wasn't laying". It taught several members of our flock to eat eggs as well. Those are lasting problems. One chicken can teach another.

The same way a mother coon teaches her offspring every year where to find food. If there are plentiful sources of natural food but a raccoon knows that every day food is put out for barn cats etc. It will continue going to that easy food source. If a raccoon raids a coop it will continue going to it even if it is secure. Now assuming it's secure that's not a problem but let's say the food source is barn cats being fed on a back porch by an elderly woman. The raccoons become accustomed to the routine and lose their fear of the little old woman and her small Chihuahua. They even come out during the day when the routine is changed. They no longer run when the door is opened 2-3 feet from them.

This goes on for a time it seems harmless but then the raccoons lose their fear of the dog completely and begin growling and snarling at the little woman and the dog.

The raccoons are not exhibiting natural behaviors. Sure they're finding foods but none of it is natural for them. They also become a danger to the woman and the dog. They chase the cats from the food that is there for them.

This woman is my Grandma and I've seen these things first hand. I've lived them. We've also had possums exhibit similar behavior even trying to enter the house. It doesn't matter what time the cats are fed. It doesn't matter where they're fed. It doesn't even matter that possums and raccoons are considered nocturnal species.

A mother raccoon will teach it's offspring that chickens are the easiest prey if she has tasted chicken. Even if she hasn't gotten them in years. She will always go back to the old food sources and teach them to look there first.

So should we cull these animals that are just trying to survive in rural areas by exhibiting learned behavior that isn't natural?

Will more predators move in? Of course they will but if you've then predator proofed your coop or even if you haven't they won't naturally first think of chicken. They will forage and find food in creeks and rivers and berry patches. Gophers and rabbits.

Wild food sources for fox and coyote and badger and even mink are all plentiful in our area. But the ones that have learned there is an easier way will abandon nature and always be on the lookout for a free ranging chicken, a door left open past sunset, an easy meal.

Of course it takes less work and that gives the predator an edge in life. Sure. But before you know it you have six raccoons eating on your back porch and you can't let your dog out because they posture and threaten to attack. The mother raccoon spurred on by the high protein and fat is heavily pregnant again and soon there will be more raccoons.

The booming population sparks fights as they fight for territory and the screaming wars resound in the valley. It makes your hair stand on end. Wakes you in the night and continues in the day. Desperate the raccoons chew into secure buildings even through flat sheet metal designed to keep them out searching for new territory.

They trash the once beautiful buildings and everything inside is covered in feces and urine.

The raccoons even fight to the death and every year we find the bodies of several massive dead coons.

In the multiple sheds the woods the garage. Several years ago we went out into one if the sheds an unused block of stables. In one of the stables there was the body of a dead raccoon. Directly above the dead one a box was a litter of babies. New babies. They were thriving and it was clear the dead raccoon wasn't their mother. But the horror was shaking.

Growing up on a different farm we had one mother raccoon that had one litter a year in a huge old tree. She lived for well over 9 years and almost felt like a sibling to me. She did develop a taste for cat food but mostly her life was natural and she never chased our barn cats away. She never lost her fear of people staying 10 feet away at minimum.

Every animal population will boom while food is plentiful but when the natural foods wain in the fall the overpopulation will often starve or be driven out to look for alternatives like chickens.

So because people have so changed the natural world and so effected it. It's our duty to keep creatures in check that can become dangerous or damaging. Not just for us both for others as well. Overpopulation causes the areas of rabies and many other diseases.

Coyotes and raccoons run rampant in the cities because they've discovered easy food and they've learned that they have nothing to fear from city dwellers. They don't know it's because of gun control and common sense- you don't shoot in a populated area. The coyotes are bold and will not only take pet food and rodents that live in the cities. House pets are also on the menu.

Of course some animals are protected no matter where they are or what they're doing.

So should some animals be killed?

Should we think more about what our actions do to the environment and how we can and do change it?

I'll let you decide.

Interesting. But my addtion is that we are not outside of the natural world, we are part of it. We think a lot about coyote in the suburbs but we also need to consider that our mania for landscape monoculture has extirpated many species leaving an opening for opportunistic animals such a coyotes.

 

[Willowspirit]

Maybe it's extreme? Don't know. I grew up here. Don't have a ton of experience anywhere else. But I'm pretty sure I'm not unique.

And BTW, I live exactly between two towns (ten miles both ways) so you'd be dumping your problems on my property. I can take it when it's cats; they're useful and generally don't go near the birds. I was happy to receive the box of "Easter Ducks" and the bunnies. The straight-run chicks were enh. I'd be far less pleased if it were raccoons.

Cats are causing huge numbers of songbird area extictions every day!!!

 

[sylviethecochin]

Cats are causing huge numbers of songbird area extictions every day!!!

Most exotic local bird I've ever seen is a goldfinch, and besides pigeon squabs, I've never caught the cats eating birds. They do kill the wild rabbits, which is irksome.

 

[sylviethecochin]

extirpated

You know, I had no idea that that was a word.

 

[chickendreams24]

Interesting. But my addtion is that we are not outside of the natural world, we are part of it. We think a lot about coyote in the suburbs but we also need to consider that our mania for landscape monoculture has extirpated many species leaving an opening for opportunistic animals such a coyotes.

You're preaching to the choir we are the ones that screwed this world up. I don't deny that at all. We are one of the only creatures that will not only change a habitat to suit our need but totally destroy the ecosystem in the process. Perfect manicured grassy lawns are ridiculous and part of what's killing the bees. That's a whole other topic though.

Cats are causing huge numbers of songbird area extictions every day!!!

I'm not saying that isn't the case in other areas. I think it depends on the number of cats and prey species populations. That said I have worked with and cared for feral cats most of my life. Yes some cats do really love birds and some are good at catching them but most would go for an easier prey species like ground squirrels and rabbits. Most feral cats are tameable and adapt very well to a pet life. Feral cats that are fed will seldom hunt, especially birds. We had at one time a feral colony living in our back yard as we tamed and rehomed the cats. These cats lived peacefully with our dogs coming and going as well as a menagerie of wildlife species.

The yard was fenced in but holes had been cut for wildlife and for the cats. We had nesting robins, sparrows and cardinals, wild rabbits had litters in the yard nearly every year, we also had numerous squirrels and ground hogs. They all lived together and I have photos of multiple animal species living and lounging together within maybe 2-3 feet quite often. The kittens (as the cats were fixed when we were able to afford it) there were 3 litters born while we were there the first before we began taming and working with the ferals. Anyway the kittens would chase the shadows cast on the deck by the birds flying around the yard but not one bird was ever attacked or killed. We were occasionally given gifts by the cats of dead mice or gophers but these were always delivered to the front driveway never in back.

In areas where there are ferals that eat birds feeding them along with TNR can greatly reduce these problems. Also I would like to point out that rats and other creatures are also dangerous to bird populations rats will climb trees to eat eggs.

Many woods are destroyed. Destroying habitat used by song birds along with many other species. Cleared for subdivisions and fields.

My point is that species die off or extinction in very few cases can be contributed only to cats.

I'm not saying you're wrong just that it's not as simple as that and that in many places that's not the case at all. People often hear that and repeat it without having any first hand experience.

Cats can be wonderful and helpful outside. No generally I don't like cats being outside because so many of them get abandoned and starve or have road accidents. It's a bit different when a house cat is let out not all but some cats when put outside can kill for the sport of it. A feral cat will generally not kill for the sport because that expends extra energy that they need to conserve to survive.

Yes that seems counterintuitive to what I said about feeding feral cats helping decrease or even stop their hunting behaviors but they have that mindset of survival. Hunting to them isn't a game it's to eat.