Coop help (design and permits necessary??)

[ShrekDawg]

Wow I didn't even think of all those points!!! That would be terrible if it turned out we had those laws too and/or they got taken away

I'll definitely have to look at the laws! I know some people down the street have them but I'll have to look into it

 

[ShrekDawg]

Okay, I found these and I'm trying to make sense of them atm. I think this is what you guys mean by zoning laws? I might ask too or go see if there's something at the library or something that might be easier to understand. found a map of the zones, trying to decipher what they mean haha

http://www.town.duxbury.ma.us/Publi...g/zoning bylaws/ARTICLE 400 - 03-12-11 TC.pdf

http://www.town.duxbury.ma.us/Public_Documents/DuxburyMA_Planning/zoning bylaws/index

http://www.town.duxbury.ma.us/Public_Documents/DuxburyMA_ByLawsGen/index

http://www.town.duxbury.ma.us/public_documents/duxburyMA_Planning/Zoning Map/Zoning Map

 

[PapaChaz]

I would think twice before you take any advise off this form in this particular situation. Not that anyone would delibertly want to cause you heartache.

The problem arises with different municipalities have different covenants written into their by laws. In my area most all structures that do NOT have a concrete foundation and can easily be moved do not require a building permit example prefab sheds delivered assembled off site.. Not so in just neigbouring communities.

Then again it is my experience best to ask for forgiveness than permission your neighbours being the deciding factor there.

wondering how an insurance company would prove a fire started by an electrical outlet wasn't an original build installed outlet, especially if there was no way to prove someone put it in themselves.........sounds like so much opportunity for a lawsuit. I do realize of course an insurance company almost always tries to get out of paying a claim any way they can.

as for part of your bolded statement, and the one below. When someone 'advises' them to think twice before taking "ANY advise" wouldn't that also include your advise to think twice, man, what a vicious circle........

Read your town bylaws and zoning laws carefully. The Right to Farm Law doesn't supersede a town's zoning laws. Keeping poultry and other livestock my be limited by your lot size or which zone your property lies in.

Additionally, many towns have regulations for keeping animals. For instance, I need a yearly permit to have chickens. My coop and run are subject to a Board of Health inspection prior to issuance of said permit. This is in addition to any building permits required for the construction of the coop. The requirements for placement of a coop is different than that of a shed. Even if my coop is a shed. The regulations also describe how food is to be stored and manure managed. In my town the fine for keeping chickens without a permit is $100 plus $100 each day thereafter. It is also a fine of up to $100 for each violation of the regulations, at the discretion of the inspector.

I do not live in an urban setting.
ETA, Like the OP, I too live in Massachusetts.

exactly why I suggested she just call and ask, which she said sounds like a good idea and she would do....

 

[SuperK]

Well, the fly in the ointment is when we buy or sell a property. The bank / lending institution usually sends out for an appraisal and that is where the non permitted work is usually caught- They do a pretty good job of comparing whats supposed to be there against what is actually there-
And I agree with all the advice to check your local zoning laws- it is in our best interests to know what we can and can't do. Some statues come with just fines, some with warnings, and some with the full weight of the governing body- In our neck of the state-California-going ahead then hoping to ask for forgiveness isn't always the best route as the building department has the option of requiring the site to be brought to its original non permitted condition- meaning they have the legal right to force you to tear it down rather than 'grandfather' it in (with fees of course). That means you could be out:
The first build,
The costs of the demolition,
The cost of the fine,
The costs of the new permit and
The cost of the new construction-

Oh, and if you don't have it down by their deadline, they will do it for you- at a substantially higher cost-

 

[ShrekDawg]

Wow that seems ridiculous :/ I wouldn't want to have to have them tear it down!!

I think I'll definitely have to call and ask

 

[SuperK]

Wow I didn't even think of all those points!!! That would be terrible if it turned out we had those laws too and/or they got taken away

I'll definitely have to look at the laws! I know some people down the street have them but I'll have to look into it

Yes, Almost every city in America have these laws in place to allow them (the cities) the authority to act. Most often they use this as the big stick lurking behind whatever carrot or alternative they may offer to those that have not obtained permits to correct the situation. In their emperical form, these authorities (the law, no the officers that enforce) do serve the greater good in a city to remove abandoned cars, make sure derelict buildings don't become crack houses for example, but can also be taken to the extreme such as the lawn patrol- actually getting out to measure one's grass length or counting if we have one chicken too many!

I can see that some don't like to permit or jump through hoops every time we want to do something, but it can be a matter of public safety. After all, since I live in a condo right now and if one Sparky wanna-be that thinks he's an electrician two doors down from me makes a mistake in wire gauge or Amp load, it can cost the rest of the occupants in our connected building everything we own if it fails and catches fire. At least with a single family dwelling its only him that suffers. Besides, in the long run having the permit gives you peace of mind that we are being good neighbors and helps cut down the paperwork in a sale or purchase of a property with coops/add-ons/ improvements on them.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Yes, Almost every city in America have these laws in place to allow them (the cities) the authority to act. Most often they use this as the big stick lurking behind whatever carrot or alternative they may offer to those that have not obtained permits to correct the situation. In their emperical form, these authorities (the law, no the officers that enforce) do serve the greater good in a city to remove abandoned cars, make sure derelict buildings don't become crack houses for example, but can also be taken to the extreme such as the lawn patrol- actually getting out to measure one's grass length or counting if we have one chicken too many!

I can see that some don't like to permit or jump through hoops every time we want to do something, but it can be a matter of public safety. After all, since I live in a condo right now and if one Sparky wanna-be that thinks he's an electrician two doors down from me makes a mistake in wire gauge or Amp load, it can cost the rest of the occupants in our connected building everything we own if it fails and catches fire. At least with a single family dwelling its only him that suffers. Besides, in the long run having the permit gives you peace of mind that we are being good neighbors and helps cut down the paperwork in a sale or purchase of a property with coops/add-ons/ improvements on them.

That definitely makes a lot of sense and I can see why, especially in an apartment, there have to be rules in place. Luckily, here, we don't seem to have too many but same places are ridiculous. not so much town laws but like housing associations and things, I've heard a lot of horror stories. I'm sure those serve a purpose too but some of the stuff is ridiculous. Like I heard someone'sdad's work car had a decal/ad thing on it so they said it had to be covered and I guess they fined a bunch of times. But then someone down the street had something wrong too but never got fined. but like they would fine even if it blew off and he didn't get home in time. So in cases like that, I think sometimes it's a power trip, but then in some cases I can see it, especially when dealing with electricity.

 

[SuperK]

More and more, for the run of the mill statues, some cities are opting to adopt the generic and boilerplate sets of laws called Muni-Code. This is a product that allows the cities to set many of the tested statutes in place and deal with the odd situations as they come up. Like us chicken and urban farmers. These are just like the name implies, cookie cutter laws that applied somewhere, but weren't intended to be for everyone- until some lawyers decided a "McLaw set" would be a good sell. The Pros for these laws is that they are the ones already road tested in court and have held up and are chock full of revenue generating fines for the cities that adopt them. As for the Cons, they are usually unyielding and hard to modify to suit the actual city conditions. Alas, in may fair city of Santa Ana, I have been told* that their police force is not enforcing the Municipal codes, rather, they are focusing on the more serious(and higher income producing) Misdemeanor and felony calls. SO I think you could park your commercially labeled vehicle safely in my neighborhood- wait, it would be stripped by morning, but you wouldn't have a ticket on the carcass for the sign on your door!

* a call to report noise violations at midnight

 

[ShrekDawg]

That makes a lot of sense! I didn't even realize some places were adopting these laws and things. seems kind of dumb but I guess it's easier?

 

[ShrekDawg]

now though, I'm thinking ducks might be a lot of fun and if so, we have a small dog house already on property we can fix up and make for them and/or I was thinking of just getting some large dog igloos lined with hay and then that would solve the permit problem. We already have a small (tiny) pond in our garden too but I'd probably get a kiddy pool too