Coop orientation.

[pistolero]

Before you do this, find me a book, ANY poultry husbandry book, that suggests you should face the open front of your chicken house north.

The direction from whence the wind blows doesn't much matter.

I don't have poultry books. Just you guys. I ordered several from amazon, but I'm working out of state and won't get to see them until I'm back home next month. I did read this in the Woods book linked to earlier. Chapter VII page 114 The Stoddard Southern House for Hot Climates:

"How should the house face? That is a question that each builder will have to decide to meet conditions in his location."

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003138272;view=1up;seq=118

 

[Howard E]

I don't have poultry books. Just you guys. I ordered several from amazon, but I'm working out of state and won't get to see them until I'm back home next month. I did read this in the Woods book linked to earlier. Chapter VII page 114 The Stoddard Southern House for Hot Climates:

"How should the house face? That is a question that each builder will have to decide to meet conditions in his location."

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003138272;view=1up;seq=118

It does say that. And in the next sentence in that paragraph, it goes on to suggest you should position the house to let in the maximum amount of morning and afternoon light.....so at the least, oriented to the SE. Also note that three pages up from that, where it shows a sketch for it, it has the open front facing south, with door on the east sidewall, as was the case with his other designs. Keep looking!

The Stoddard house was a hot weather (Texas) version of his standard house, and as I read it, was proposed or suggested design based on a Dr. Stodddards success with other open (wide open) air houses. Not sure if Woods ever documented anyone building one. If so, I didn't see where he mentioned it. Built as shown, it would probably make a great house for you. The only solid walls being the back wall and upper parts of the side walls under the monitor windows. In many ways, not much more than a partially enclosed run with roof on it as a lot of folks use today.

There is one other thing he mentioned about this and other designs, and was pretty much universal from all of them, was if this was to be a permanent house, use a concrete floor. An elevated concrete floor. Built more or less as we do slab construction in some homes today. The surface of the slab elevated from 4 to 6 inches above the surrounding land. Dry and nearly impervious to rats and digging varmints. Suggested even with deep litter. Even if rain does blow in from the sides, and the litter gets wet, it will dry out soon enough.

 

[pistolero]

It does say that. And in the next sentence in that paragraph, it goes on to suggest you should position the house to let in the maximum amount of morning and afternoon light.....

It says "I would place the southern house so that sunlight in the early morning and late afternoon will penetrate most of the interior and ample shade be given during the hot part of the day."
The "hot part of the day" here in summer is dawn until midnight, at least. There ARE NO cool times, certainly not when the sun is shining. I can get up and go outside before dawn and break a sweat just walking to my car. HOT AND HUMID. It's the southeast, it's not 120*, but it's not a "dry heat" either. It's like 95 in the desert, but being wrapped in a wet wool blanket. "Heat index" is more a measure of "miserableness" then temps, just like wind chill can be much worse than low temps.

 

[pistolero]

There is one other thing he mentioned about this and other designs, and was pretty much universal from all of them, was if this was to be a permanent house, use a concrete floor. An elevated concrete floor. Built more or less as we do slab construction in some homes today. The surface of the slab elevated from 4 to 6 inches above the surrounding land. Dry and nearly impervious to rats and digging varmints. Suggested even with deep litter. Even if rain does blow in from the sides, and the litter gets wet, it will dry out soon enough.

I would love to start with a concrete foundation. Solves (or at least helps with) several potential problems for me. Clay soil (poor drainage) and wet weather plus lots of heat and humidity in summer. Still in the research phase. I plan to do just that if possible. I'll at least have a large run area with a raised gravel base (if not concrete) and build on top of that several inches of wood chips then deep litter of pine bedding, pine needles, hay, and leaves on top of that. I can't keep the whole yard dry in the monsoon season but I mean to pick the coop and run up above the wet stuff and keep the chickens out of the mud.

 

[Howard E]

It says "I would place the southern house so that sunlight in the early morning and late afternoon will penetrate most of the interior and ample shade be given during the hot part of the day."
The "hot part of the day" here in summer is dawn until midnight, at least. There ARE NO cool times, certainly not when the sun is shining. I can get up and go outside before dawn and break a sweat just walking to my car. HOT AND HUMID. It's the southeast, it's not 120*, but it's not a "dry heat" either. It's like 95 in the desert, but being wrapped in a wet wool blanket. "Heat index" is more a measure of "miserableness" then temps, just like wind chill can be much worse than low temps.

You are 100% correct with this one. Of the two, heat or cold, heat is probably a bigger threat to the birds and source of far more stress than cold is. Shade, ventilation and lots of cool water are the best remedies. Not only shade from the coop but if you can park it under a big shade tree or surrounded by trees to offer daytime shade and cooling breezes it will help. If running round, access to low hanging shrubs and bushes that provide overhead cover from the sun and predators, but are open at ground level to let the breeze blow through. That is why that Stoddard house is so wide open, including open at ground level in the back. Shade, with whatever breeze that blows running through it.

Birds don't sweat. About all they can do is pant (like dogs, hogs, etc.). That is their cooling radiator.....their warm breath takes the heat out in the form of heated water vapor, so they void a lot of water this way, in addition to the usual losses. That water has to be replaced. They will also seek heat sinks like cool concrete, moist dirt, etc.

Yes, it is December 21 and cold in a lot of places, but days are now getting longer. Good to start planning now for the heat.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I know they hate dirt floors in that book, but that is more for the concentrations in a commercial situation. My chicken density does not approach commercial standards. There is nothing wrong with a concrete floor, it’s great if you can manage it. If you do, slope it so water drains out, not stands on it. Don’t create places that will hold water.

I built up the floor of my coop with clay dirt so it was a few inches above ground level. I had a free and handy source of clay dirt. Mine is located in a fairly flat area but there is a gentle slope over the general area. I put in a swale on the uphill side to direct rainwater runoff away. I put bedding on top of the clay. It stays perfectly dry in there but if you build the one with open sides, you’ll get a lot of rain and snow blowing in. With an open design so it has great ventilation and a sloping surface so it drains you should be OK.

But your run is important too. If water cannot drain out it can become a muddy stinking mess. In wet weather it may be anyway. If you can build your run up so water drains out instead of stands you are going to be way ahead. I don’t know what kind of dirt you have. If it is sand you will probably be OK, but if it is clay you might want to build it up with clay to get it higher than the surrounding area so you don’t create a bath tub where water stands. Runs can be harder than coops to keep dry but they are important too.

I’ll mention that I only empty out my coop onto the garden once every three or four years. My chicken density is not all that high and they spend most days outside anyway, I use a dropping board to keep the poop volume in the coop down, and I keep it dry. We all use different management practices and have different circumstances. We each need to find what methods work best for us in our unique circumstances. But don’t forget the run if you have one. The best time to fix a muddy run is when you are designing it.

 

[Howard E]

They hated dirt floors in all the old books and especially so if the house was permanent. Concrete was seen as the way to go as they were dry (if properly constructed so as to be elevated above surrounding land), the most sanitary as they could be cleaned out down to bare concrete, which was then washed off, and maybe the most important of them all, a barrier to rats. Most of those old books seldom mentioned predators, except for hawks and ever present, always problematic......rats. They really hated rats.

But I tend to agree on the dirt, as long as it is on a well drained site, with controlled drainage, and especially so using built up litter. My Woods house has a dirt floor, and sits on the remnant of a farm terrace, so is well drained. But it is also portable, so if the ground beneath it gets too foul, I can always move it.

 

[WesleyBeal]

They hated dirt floors in all the old books and especially so if the house was permanent. Concrete was seen as the way to go as they were dry (if properly constructed so as to be elevated above surrounding land), the most sanitary as they could be cleaned out down to bare concrete, which was then washed off, and maybe the most important of them all, a barrier to rats. Most of those old books seldom mentioned predators, except for hawks and ever present, always problematic......rats. They really hated rats.

But I tend to agree on the dirt, as long as it is on a well drained site, with controlled drainage, and especially so using built up litter. My Woods house has a dirt floor, and sits on the remnant of a farm terrace, so is well drained. But it is also portable, so if the ground beneath it gets too foul, I can always move it.

I think at the time of these books, they were caught up in 19th and early 20th century attempts to apply science to chicken coops, and everything else. The goal was to create an environment that man could control.

Concrete was great because it could be sterilized. Still is, if you end up needing to do so. It would of been inconceivable to the authors at the time that dirt offered anything except risks of disease, and forcing you to contend with the whims of nature with regards to soil moisture.

Whereas now, if you look to things like deep-litter, I think we are understanding the benefits of having actual dirt floors.