Correct mixture of grains for feed

[Chris09]

Here's another breakdown


Nutrient Amount
(per 1 lb) Nutrient Amount
(per 1 lb)
Calories 2588.40 Protein 103.50 g
Carbohydrates 85.25 g Fiber
(dietary) 47.74 g
Sugars 15.03 g Fat 225.46 g
Water 24.38 g Omega-3
Fatty Acids 0.25 g
Omega-6
Fatty Acids 148.40 g Lysine 24.5 mg
Vitamins:

Vitamin Amount
(per 1 lb) Vitamin Amount
(per 1 lb)
Vitamin A 222.48 IU Thiamin 10.36 mg
Riboflavin 1.14 mg Niacin 20.46 mg
Vitamin B6 3.54 mg Vitamin C 6.32 mg
Vitamin E 340.50 IU Folate 1033.90 mcg
Vitamin K 12.25 mcg Pantothenic Acid 30.69 mg
Minerals:

Mineral Amount
(per 1 lb) Mineral Amount
(per 1 lb)
Calcium 527.43 mg Copper 7.96 mg
Iron 30.82 mg Magnesium 1609.57 mg
Manganese 9.22 mg Phosphorus 3205.50 mg
Potassium 3132.75 mg Selenium 270.53 mcg
Sodium 13.64 mg Zinc 22.99 mg
They are also high in amino acids...which are very important for muscle building and maintenance.

Could this info be from a site is intended for humans?
With Livestock/poultry these numbers are quite different and broke down differently.

Example would be that it states "Protein 103.50 g", in livestock the weigh is always in pounds (U.S.).
Also if this was a listing intended for livestock fiber would be broke down to Crude Fiber (CF), Acid Detergent Fiber(ADF) and Neutral Detergent Fibers (NDF). It would also state Digestible energy (DE), Net Energy (NE), Net Energy Maintenance (NEm) or Net Energy Growth (NEg).

 

[glib]

Fermenting it will increase the proteins and vitamins of course. In the case of lysine, the most limiting amino acid, it will increase by a factor of several, so it is not clear that fermented grains are necessarily low in proteins. Concur that you have to get an idea what they eat when free ranging, though grass does provide a lot vitamins and some proteins. If there is abundant clover in their range, they should be fine.

in the case of oats, for example, fermented oats are quite high in lysine (fish meal levels). Fermented milled has good amounts of it.

 

[Chris09]

Fermenting it will increase the proteins and vitamins of course. In the case of lysine, the most limiting amino acid, it will increase by a factor of several, so it is not clear that fermented grains are necessarily low in proteins. Concur that you have to get an idea what they eat when free ranging, though grass does provide a lot vitamins and some proteins. If there is abundant clover in their range, they should be fine.

Fermenting will not increase nutrients it will only (to a point) make them more available.
Also grass,, it provides very little nutrients to chickens since there not designed to digest high amounts of fiber like a herbivore, it in turn grasses deplete nutrition.

 

[glib]

I can not understand the need to quote numbers, when these numbers can completely change due to fermentation. whether availability changes, or bacteria pull nitrogen out of the air(which they do) to fabricate what they need, it is the same. I also can not see the need to feed 18% mash to the (free ranging) chickens during the growing season, since they almost do not touch it anyway. I can not see the need to quote macro numbers as immutable, when it is clear to anyone who has chickens that they need much more fat in winter than in summer (at least those with winters). and why would they eat half of it, fermented versus dry, even in cool weather, if eating less will make them protein deficient?

 

[Chris09]

I can not understand the need to quote numbers, when these numbers can completely change due to fermentation. whether availability changes, or bacteria pull nitrogen out of the air(which they do) to fabricate what they need, it is the same. I also can not see the need to feed 18% mash to the (free ranging) chickens during the growing season, since they almost do not touch it anyway. I can not see the need to quote macro numbers as immutable, when it is clear to anyone who has chickens that they need much more fat in winter than in summer (at least those with winters). and why would they eat half of it, fermented versus dry, even in cool weather, if eating less will make them protein deficient?

What a lot of people don't know or don't understand is that chickens are very different then most other animals in that they eat to fill a caloric need, when that need is met the eating stops so there feed needs to meet there caloric intake. Now if your birds are out eating a bunch of low nutrient grass then they need to get there dietary need somewhere, it has to come from there feed and there feed needs to high enough in nutrients to compensate for the grass that there eating.

I can not see the need to quote macro numbers as immutable, when it is clear to anyone who has chickens that they need much more fat in winter than in summer (at least those with winters).

Actually if your birds are healthy and fed correctly throughout the year they do not need more fat.
What they may need is a little extra Protein and Fiber since these to take much longer to digest and in turn help produce body heat. Adding more Fat to there diet means there caloric need is met much sooner and they eat less, plus the energy that comes form the fat is burned of much sooner than that of proteins.

and why would they eat half of it, fermented versus dry, even in cool weather, if eating less will make them protein deficient?

I will assume that your asking, why would chickens eat half as much fermented feed compared to poultry feed.
If so, there can be a number of reasons. One being the fermentation may increase the calories in the feed/mix. Increasing calories means that they meet there caloric need sooner in turn eat less. It dose not mean that there all the nutrition they need with less feed.
Another reason there eating less could be that the natural yeast is feeding off the Vitamin B (as some do) in turn the birds are showing one of the signs of Vitamin B decency, that being a lowered feed intake.

 

[glib]

You know, I disagree. Fermentation can only decrease the energy content of anything. Meaning that real nutrition is given by whatever the content is, times absorbability. And it is the latter that increases a lot. But the 16% feed, eaten in half quantities, will provide half the proteins. That is, they are getting the same proteins they would get if they were eating 8% feed.

In fact they are absorbed better, and some proteins and vitamins are created anew in the fermentation (particularly the missing amino acids). I also do not agree that grass has anti nutrients (surely it has some, but compared to ground grains, little), specially considering that they favor broadleaf weeds and legumes. Anyhow, the OP should just check if his chickens catch earthworms. Those are 76% proteins dry weight.

 

[Chris09]

But the 16% feed, eaten in half quantities, will provide half the proteins. That is, they are getting the same proteins they would get if they were eating 8% feed.

You do understand that a 16% protein feed means that there is 16% protein per 100 pounds.
So if a bird is consuming 1/2 the recommended amount of feed it will just take a little longer for that bird to reach 16% protein. The end result is still going to be that the bird is eating a 16% feed.

In fact they are absorbed better, and some proteins and vitamins are created anew in the fermentation (particularly the missing amino acids).
If your feeding a good complete poultry feed there are no, "missing" amino acids.

I also do not agree that grass has anti nutrients (surely it has some, but compared to ground grains, little), specially considering that they favor broadleaf weeds and legumes.

I said nothing about grass having anti nutrients, I said that it depletes nutrients there is a big difference.
A example would be --
If a chickens consumes 10 pounds of rye grass for every 90 pounds of a 16% poultry feed that bird is getting 15.5% protein.
Note how the lower protein grass lowered the total protein consumed.

Anyhow, the OP should just check if his chickens catch earthworms. Those are 76% proteins dry weight.

Where did you get the protein percentage for earth worms?
76% protein sounds more like Earth Worm Meal not live earth worms and since you used the term, "dry weight" I believe your quoting Earth Worm Meal not live earth worms.

 

[jckruid]

Ok, I was just looking for a good ratio to mix what I stated I have available per 50lbs. There is tons of clover and many legumes they are able to freely eat while free ranging our property. I do see them getting worms fairly often. I know people who in the spring and summer almost feed nothing and the birds do fine with all the bugs and grasses. They are birds after all. I'm only trying to make a cost effective feed with no corn or soy. Thanks

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Anytime you start fermenting a grain, especially when you wash it multiple times like many fermented feed recipes call for, you loose food value, especially protein and carbs. Also the constant washing of the grain that some practice only leaches vitamins and minerals out of the food.

Also be advised that the "guaranteed" protein analysis is based solely on the presence of the element Nitrogen. Because all life as we know it is based solely on the element Carbon, if a Mars space probe went badly off course and crash landed in a West Virginia strip mine, you could mistake the data sent back as proof that there is life on Mars simply by the presence of Carbon in the samples that the space probe annualized from the open pit coal mine. The question we should be asking is how well can the animals we feed utilize the food that we give them?

 

[lazy gardener]

I do not know anyone who washes their grains when fermenting them. In fact, a lot of folks ferment bagged feed, and do it in such a way that there is never any back wash left at the bottom of the bucket. When birds free range, they will naturally cut back on the prepared feed, and will meet their needs through the combination of both feed options.