County says Yes "HOA" says No WWYD?

[leadwolf1]

I would look thorugh your phone book. Check out the lawyers section. Pick a lawyer that isn't just for divorces or corporate law. I'm not sure what their actual title is but, if you get the wrong one, they are usually more then happy to recommend a friend that will help you.

Good luck.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Normally I would say that the CC&Rs would rule, but truly sounds like they may not be enforceable at all. First things you need to do is check whether there were any covenants filed with the plat of the land that would prohibit the chickens or that state any of the other CC&Rs, and if so, whether there is an expiration date. Older covenants were often worded to expire after a certain number of years.

Second, look at your state laws that govern HOAs. More and more states are passing laws that help protect the rights of residents, balancing the power of HOAs with that of their members. Things such as a requirement for providing you with copies of the documents such as CC&Rs, rules, etc. If they cannot provide a cop of the entire set of covenants, how can they enforce a provision that may well be further defined, amended or even contradicted by other provisions that they cannot provide due to illegibility?

Also, what privileges does voluntary membership give? The covenants may be enforceable for all the property, but membership grants certain benefits. If there is no benefit, what is the point? And it may be that only members must follow the cc&rs provisions.

I think that basically you have a real can of worms, and the HOA has an even bigger can.

If you can show that chickens have been in the neighborhood over the years (not just now) without any effort at enforcement of the provision against chickens, chances are pretty good that the provision is no longer legally enforceable.

 

[LMS]

Well, I did manage to find what I think is a complete document. The neighborhood was built in "phases" and each phase has its own link to CCRs on the website. Some of the other areas of the neighborhood appear to have different CCRs (i.e., none available) but our area and the one built right before ours are listed together in some places, so I looked at the other area's CCRs and they appear to be the same. So now I have a complete document that presumably applies to my home, it doesn't state anything any more clearly than the snippet I posted above, and doesn't define "ordinary domestic animals." The CCRs for our area expire in 2020.

I can't find anything that talks about what you get for the $5 or $10/year other than a newsletter, which we were receiving anyway b/c no one ever changed the homeowner name in the database (if they have one) and so since the former owners were members, we got their newsletters. Three of them, in 8 years or so. So I have no idea if you only get the right to complain for the membership fee, or if you get to breach the CCRs (which many folks here have, although none with chickens), or what.

I am going to look into the state laws re: HOAs, thanks for that advice.

As far as showing that chickens have been around for years here, no, I can't do that. My next door neighbors had them for less than a year (I think) before they moved out. The farms down the road are likely exempt due to different zoning or something. And the only other neighbor I know of with chickens is a good friend of mine who I'd hate to see lose hers b/c of my big mouth. And she's in a different "phase" of the neighborhood, so her rules may be different from mine anyway, but her area is one that doesn't have CCRs available online.

The hubby is willing to move forward and beg forgiveness later. The most he was willing to offer was that maybe we should ask our one next door neighbor if he minds so he doesn't complain. Between his barking dogs and his rogue cat that comes over our fence, I'm guessing he wouldn't have a problem....