Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

While on the internet, I found some of the steps needed to get breed acceptance from APA.

One of them is affidavits from breeders, I think it is 5, that say the breed has been breeding 50% true or 5-years.

Thus the SOP would be the measure of true. For this breed the most important trait is autosexing IMO..... All my hatchlings (albiet it few) last year, and this year have been easily autosexing and true to their predicted types. True to type -- light fowl that looks similar to a leghorn but more robust (although there are some really nice leghorn pictures in my APA standard - dated 1937 available on Kindle)

1. What does 50% true mean? 50 % of the birds hatched are true to type and color. That would be my interpretation. It wouldn't mean 50% accuracy in all the birds bred. I also realize that 50% is the minimum. Perhaps we could achieve 60% or 70% true.

2. Could people start documenting their hatches now (of course) -- How old -- how long do the birds need to be kept? At what point could the bird be considered to meet the requirements? I expect probably to never have more than 3 active roosters -- ever....so lots of boys would be gone and not raised to maturity.

Another requirement is a qualifying event with no fewer than 50 entries of the breed. And I think the entries must represent all the categories - Cockerel, Pullet, Rooster and Hen -

1. is there a distribution that is required, does anyone know -- what if only 3 roosters were entered?
2. is there a certain number of breeders that are needed to represent the breed?


I know that this is in the future -- but I'm thinking ahead. ;O)

ETA - so people could start weighing their birds to see if we match the weight requirement - that would be a part of breeding true right? Check for autosexing, laying blue-gene eggs, having crests, barring on males, salmon breast on females.... Those traits are already in the here and now -- How many of the traits are required for the 50% true categorization?

 

[tadkerson]

I am sorry to say but I have not come across any research manuscripts that deal shafting. I have not worked on the shafting issue with experimental breeding so I can not add to he discussion of shafting.

Shafting is one of the things I would like to work on but I have not had the time or space to do so.


I believe the 50% rule applies to the blue phenotype and the dun (fawn) phenotype. Both are incompletely dominant genes so you can only get 50% of the phenotype in certain crosses dealing with the genes. For example, a black bird ( carries two recessive alleles at the blue locus) when crossed with a blue bird ( carries an incompletely dominant blue allele and a recessive allele at the blue locus) produces 50% black and 50% blue offspring. I could be wrong but that is my interpretation.

BGMatt,

Once a breeder produces a bird without shafting is the trait ( no shafting) inherited by the offspring or do you have to hatch a bunch of chicks and cull in the next generation.

Tim

 

[CibolaChooks]

Bonnie Hall on the UK FB page said, "Having checked in my standards book, I found that on the description of both the gold and silver legbar female plumage it states "individual feather showing paler shaft and slightly paler edging" yet it doesn't say this in the description for cream. I can't think of any reason why one variety would show it and not another and can't help wondering if it was simply missed from the standards when written?"

So it sounds like it is possible it is meant to be there?

yea and it wouldn't be changing the standard to meet bad birds bad breeding. especially since we have no American standard to change and your trying to make a new one anyway it might as well be correct.

Is it meant to be there or something that wasn't a UK concern in the looks of their birds. I'm sure there are allot of people like BGMatt who don't like it and would say correct it threw better breeding. I know its rare not to have it but i don't mind it either way. they look good with it and good without it.

 

[Sonia]

I would be interested in joining the legbar cluub I see y'all talking about. Is there a link?

 

[dretd]

I would be interested in joining the legbar cluub I see y'all talking about. Is there a link?

Hi Sonia! It would be great for you to join!

Here is the link that I have been using:
https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarclublaunch/membership-listing

or this for the join us page:
https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarclublaunch/how-do-i-join

 

[dretd]

Quote:
I am with you that it is not a really important thing one way or another. I doubt Punnet gave it a second thought when he was breeding the birds, he was more interested in the cream genetics and autosexing etc.


I think that, for me, fussing over a trait when there is not a clear path away from the trait other than 'breed a whole lot of birds and cull hard' seems counter-productive when it really is an aesthetic choice. Instead of worrying about proper form clearly outlined, some folks will try to add that in but the base is not there and thus it is a distraction. It may be the straw that discourages some smaller back yard breeders from even trying to take on the Cream Legbars. I can hear them now: "I cant even get the crest and comb right and now I have to worry about shafting and no one even knows how to fix it in a straightforward way--I give up" And here they just want to breed some pretty, blue egg laying, charming chickens with a cool history that you can autosex.

If I had a geneticist come and say it was on these one or two chromosomes, or it is linked with something else you can recognize and breed out and here is how, then I would have a solid platform to argue for no shafting. As it is, it is a 'problem' in other breeds because it is written in their breed standard. We are making the breed standard now and we can choose what we want based on history (Punnet) and the birds we want to 're-create'. Its actually empowering in a way.

 

[KPenley]

Back shafting is much easier to get rid of by basic selective breeding (hatch a ton a cull mercilessly). Basing this statement on experience with Crele which are a similar pattern.

This is interesting since the rooster's double barred pattern has been called different types of crele. At what age do you recommend culling? I've seen a difference between the first adult feathers of the hens (lighter around the edges, more brown color like chick down) and those that come in after the first good molt. I'll have to start paying attention to the shafting before and after molt as well.

 

[dretd]

I am sorry to say but I have not come across any research manuscripts that deal shafting. ...Tim

Tim, thanks for taking the time to let us know your findings. If you can think of anyone else that has worked on shafting then could you invite them to join the discussion?

 

[blackbirds13]

Are there pictures of Cream Legbars without shafting?
The British Poultry standard reads "individual feathers showing lighter shaft and edging" right after they talk about the soft barrings and prior to describing the wing description for both the gold and silver female color. I have been looking at photos online to see what the lack of shafting should look like and have not come across any for the Cream Legbar. If someone has any or where they can be located I would be interested to see what the difference is. I would have a hard time breeding to a standard I cannot visualize. Sorry, visual learner here.

 

[Sonia]

I would be interested in joining the legbar cluub I see y'all talking about. Is there a link?

Hi Sonia!  It would be great for you to join!

Here is the link that I have been using:
https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarclublaunch/membership-listing

or this for the join us page:
https://sites.google.com/site/creamlegbarclublaunch/how-do-i-join