Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[dretd]

Quote: LaBella, you have said something I have said before and I don't mind the doggie reference

Some points to consider:
-Clearly some of the stock imported from GFF were gold/off type or we would not be seeing so many off-color/off-type birds in the US today
-Part of the lack of uniformity is the blending of 3 soon to be 4 lines. When you do this, the modifiers that were stable in an individual line will come forward with some unexpected results. Eventually each individual's line will stabilize as they cull for undesirable traits. This will predictably take several years at least.
-It is not uncommon in chicken breeding to bring in outside lines or breeds to enhance/add a feature in your line/breed such as vigor, productivity or color. I messes the genetics and will take several years or more to get stability back in the line with numerous hatches and aggressive breeding. So this is where chicken breeding varies from most (but not all) mammal breeding/registries.
-In looking at a very large number of photos, to me sometimes a rooster is obviously gold sometimes they are obviously cream and sometimes they are ambiguous. The trick is figuring out those ambiguous ones. I do think that it is easier to tell cream in females because the Autosomal Red doesn't express as obviously as it does in males.
-For me personally, I am fairly sure that the three pullets I have are gold but may be Ig/ig. I specifically got eggs from a breeder who concentrated on color to get cream early on so that I know that the roosters I have growing out are cream and I can then breed them to the hens and uncover their underlying genetics and move forward once I understand what I have (their type is very good). That is my strategy, although there are probably as many breeding strategies as there are breeders

And I use the term breeder in the loosest general sense on myself as my pullets are just now at the POL and I have not hatched any chicks yet. My strategy may change as the birds necessitate.

 

[Darkangael]

I totally disagree with your assessment of the British Legbars. I think if you spoke with the current breeders they would be more inclined to see their efforts as more positively reinforcing their SOP and bringing forth a resurgence of a more correct Cream Legbar.
I have been breeding these birds for only 2 years and I would say longer than most since I was one of the earliest to obtain my birds and all my birds originated from Greenfire directly. A, B and 2013 lines. I wish folks would just breed the birds and see what they get before we start talking about some idealized version of what could have maybe been some self-defined historical version of what the bird could have maybe was supposed to look like.
To call what the brits are doing a fad is a tad insulting given the hard work and effort they are doing to bring it back from the mess it was mired in.
Everyone has their own idea of how Cream cream should be but I think I have some gorgeous birds of my own.... not perfect and not close to being perfect but I'm putting a lot of effort into what I am doing as is everyone else who is dedicated and currently breeding the birds here and where they originated in Great Britain.

It was not intended as such I was speaking based on what I have read across the various threads so I was trying to clarify what I had read. I do not yet have Cream Legbars and am mostly reading and offering my opinion based on what I have read. I did say I personally preferred more color.
I may not have phrased what I was thinking at the time as well as I might have I admit, however part of why I said what I said is because I have read in several places that many breeders in the UK also think that the silver looking birds are going too far. If I am wrong, so be it. I am not trying to start a fight only trying to make a sensible opinion based on what I understand from what I have read. It is the way they are doing it in the UK and either way there is room in the standard for both types of birds. I am not advocating for extremely over colored birds, I do think the silver is not as attractive though. Either way this is only my opinion and must be taken with a grain of salt since I don't even have the birds yet.

 

[Darkangael]

Also, was going to mention since you brought up Jean Robocker and Dutch bantams that she has some of the citroen dutch. I remember the first time I saw one of her citroen/lemon mille fluer Dutch bantams in person, it was very stunning. Her and I have met a few times at shows, she has a wealth of knowledge and is a great person. Anyway, where I was going with that was that one of the out crosses I did to silver phoenix this year produced a lemon colored bird. I made the outcross to take blue eggs and crele coloring into phoenix and only kept a few pullets. 2 of those pullets have better cream than my legbars, kind of dead grass color or a super sunbleached khaki campbell duck color, and the third pullet is barred and all like a legbar pullet, she has a salmon breast and everything, but her hackle almost glows like the citroen/lemon colored birds. This is a recessive color so I am debating on it. It could be the real lemon showing up or (most likely) is just dilute popping up from the phoenix.


I know this is the cream legbar thread so I don't post much here but had to add my two cents worth on this

By the way I appreciate your posts they have helped me understand some things I did not understand before so please don't stop posting.

 

[fowlman01]

Keep in mind that chickens can LOOK like a certain color while they are in fact not carrying those color genes.......or at least in the way they physically appear. Chickens are judged on the way they look, not by what they are genetically. Chickens are not like other animals you may have bred.

Walt

 

[dretd]

Keep in mind that chickens can LOOK like a certain color while they are in fact not carrying those color genes.......or at least in the way they physically appear. Chickens are judged on the way they look, not by what they are genetically. Chickens are not like other animals you may have bred.

Walt

Thank you for your timely comment Walt!

I am wondering, since you have had a hand at helping with the proposed SOP and are a judge, how would a judge look at and interpret the Cream color in a rooster that was at a show?

Lets take the hackles (Hackle—cream, sparsely barred with gray )for instance, how would cream be interpreted to look? Are they only looking for that silvery cream color (white), or a light straw color or other off-white color? What would the spectrum of acceptable cream color be to a judge and is there a standard preference overall or is it up to a judge to decide for himself?

Also how are deductions for color taken? If the bird has more color than a judge deems typical for cream, how much of a deduction would it be and is there a point where a judge would say 'that is not Cream' and DQ a rooster? It would be immensely helpful to have your input from a judges perspective on how you interpret the look of the color Cream on a barred breed.

Many thanks for your mentorship of the Cream Legabar folks!

 

[ChicKat]

Hi. Are there any Cream Legbar breeders in the UK. Im sure there are i just don,t know em

This webaddress is to the website of Jill Rees who raises CLs in the UK. If it isn't working you could google Jill Rees and Cream Legbar. HTH
http://www.jillscreamlegbars.co.uk/#

 

[ohrealy]

Thanks thats great

 

[ChicKat]

you are welcome!! Hope it works out.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Hi. Are there any Cream Legbar breeders in the UK. Im sure there are i just don,t know em

If you are on facebook, try the Cream Legbar Breeders Group- there are LOTS of UK breeders there- Jill Rees included. https://www.facebook.com/groups/332175963534766/

 

[ohrealy]

More very useful information thanks