Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

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Alot people will be Dishearten to the fact that the bird is actually Silver not cream even if such bird was 7/8th CCL... heck even if such a bird would meet the SOP to the line and was 99.9% CCL. that 0.1 percent being the Silver gene.... But Such bird does not exist yet so its all speculation to this point...

 

[fowlman01]

What ever you folks do try to keep the original traits. ..auto sexing, egg color etc

 

[ChicKat]

What ever you folks do try to keep the original traits. ..auto sexing, egg color etc

Absolutely!!

 

[LaBella]

Here is the latest version of the SOP http://www.creamlegbarclub.com/30-draft-standard-of-perfection-as-of-2013

Cream Legbar DRAFT Standard of Perfection for the USA APA application.

***Lots of good stuff***

More information can be found in the Cream Legbar Club's Clubhouse under publications where the past newsletters are archived. Look for the Vol 1 No 2 newsletter and go to page 5. Read the complete article written by Cream Legbar Club 2013 Vice President, Heather Barnes.

Revisions now under consideration (8/2013) include the recognition of a visible feather shaft since it would be subtracted for if not mentioned in USA competition and no one has yet seen a female that lacks this trait.
Bolded.
I am in agreement with this. I don't even think I have seen a UK female without visible feather shaft.
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And this is why I am concerned about the birds being bred so light that a silver can pass as a cream. Especially since I expect that the "gold crested Legbar" has it's fans, and the "silver crested Legbar" can't be too far away... And lets not forget FMPs Rose Comb Cream Legbars (which I think are cool as whipped cream).
Ah well.. By the time I can get my hands in the pot, the breed will already be accepted, lol.

 

[dretd]

Quote: More information can be found in the Cream Legbar Club's Clubhouse under publications where the past newsletters are archived. Look for the Vol 1 No 2 newsletter and go to page 5. Read the complete article written by Cream Legbar Club 2013 Vice President, Heather Barnes.

Revisions now under consideration (8/2013) include the recognition of a visible feather shaft since it would be subtracted for if not mentioned in USA competition and no one has yet seen a female that lacks this trait.
Bolded.
I am in agreement with this. I don't even think I have seen a UK female without visible feather shaft.
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And this is why I am concerned about the birds being bred so light that a silver can pass as a cream. Especially since I expect that the "gold crested Legbar" has it's fans, and the "silver crested Legbar" can't be too far away... And lets not forget FMPs Rose Comb Cream Legbars (which I think are cool as whipped cream).
Ah well.. By the time I can get my hands in the pot, the breed will already be accepted, lol.

Hi LaBella, There is a lot of banter and discussion going on which is good, I think so that all angles have been covered. According to KPenley, it will be very difficult to substantially change the SOP from what was written in Britain.

I think for me, the amount of chestnut as written gives some wiggle room to interpretation. The problem I have is that we as a group need to inform the judges about our breed and clearly there are birds that do not meet the SOP in color and miss the mark by quite a bit. Personally I think that, since the breed is Cream Legbar, they need to be genetically Cream (ig/ig) and many of the birds at this time are not. The breeders are working hard to achieve that goal. I do have a hard time sometimes telling if a moderately colorful bird is a color enhanced Cream or a Gold color. Over time this will become more obvious as breeders do test breeding to confirm which phenotypes are which genotypes. Until then, there will be some lively chatter with opinions but no real answers until more time has elapsed. Patience is important.

Now on to the shafting. I would caution jumping in to wording that would make shafting the norm. I would rather not mention shafting (as it appears to be purposefully left out of the British CL SOP) than saying it is outright allowed. Since most of the hens have a slight amount of shafting already, if you allow it without qualifications, there will be more and more shafting appearing and it will predominate all of the feathers. I think this would be a mistake as the breast would no longer be that pretty (mostly) uniform salmon color. The standard does call for the breast coloration to be well defined from the side and since in my experience the shafting starts to creep in from the sides you will loose this definition. So allow one thing and cause more problem in another area. I have a HQ Welsummer with extensive shafting and I would hate to see that be the norm for the Cream Legbars. Since all of the birds have a small amount, it will not harm them within the breed as they are ranked off each other. It may cause a problem at best of show when you compare against other breeds but honestly a new breed is unlikely to get that far for quite some time anyway. A wiggle-room statement would be something like Breast: "a small amount of shafting should not penalize an otherwise well-marked hen".

Our job is to inform the judges at show what the Cream Legbars look like. If just as many people choose to show that have more color in their birds as ones that have no color, the judges will get used to seeing the range. The judges will apply the standard as written and as it will likely be almost identical the proposal, birds that have more color than the some chestnut allowed will get points off, but if they have correct type and the no-color roos have a wavy comb with 7 points and a high tail, it will also get deductions so there is balance.

I think we are focusing so much on color that we are losing sight of the bird as a whole. All of the various attributes are important and weigh in to the total. Where one bird may fall behind in one area, it will be ahead in another.

 

[dretd]

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would you still be my friend if I showed a Silver Creasted Legbar as a Cream Creasted Legbar in a show? would that be concidered cheating?

Here's the thing, I have no problem with folks doing some outcrossing to enhance traits then bringing the results back into the standard. I would't have a problem with you taking Light Brown Leghorns, Barred Rock, native Mapuche birds and even a hamburg or campine or whatever was used to grab the cream and recreating the Legbar from scratch and calling it a Cream Legbar.

I do however take issue with adding Silver as a substitute dilutor for Cream and here is why.

The Cream Legbar is genetically Cream. The standard calls for barred Cream and gray not Silver and gray. The name of the breed even has the color gene Cream in the name--its not Crested Legbar or Blue Egg Legbar, But the Cream Legbar. Needs to be Cream based or it is not a Cream Legbar even if it looks like a Cream Legbar. If you use Silver it is a Crested Silver Legbar and wouldn't meet standards for either bird.

An analogy. Lets say there was a brilliant chef and that had an awesome Beef Bourguignon recipe. There was a competition for Elk Bourguignon that he wanted to enter and decided that since you really can't tell the difference between elk and beef and beef is easier to buy and work with, he would go ahead and enter his recipe in this competition with the beef instead of the elk. Now if he wins the recipe competition in the category of Elk Bourguingnon, but he really made Beef Bourguignon and didn't tell anyone of his substitution, I submit that he cheated the competition and his fellow competitors who used the named ingredient that was in the title of the recipe competition. Doesn't matter if you couldn't tell the difference, he made a beef recipe in an elk competition. A no-no in my book and I would think that, although the chef is clearly brilliant, I would be very disappointed in him for his actions to use beef instead of sticking with the challenge of using elk.

 

[fowlman01]

Dretd's post is right on.

w.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

So, for the colored birds, do people want to call them gold or light brown? I figure this winter when I have extra time, I want to start writing up a proposed color standard for the colored birds. Type would be that of the cream legbars but they will be colorful

 

[FridayYet]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/254908/need-a-good-pic-of-light-brown-leghorn-hen

I had never seen a light brown leghorn so I googled it. After looking at this pic, I think Light Brown Legbar would be a great name, since there already was a Gold Legbar that didn't have a crest or lay blue eggs.

Just my $.02

 

[nicalandia]

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Didnt Steem posted words from Mr. Pease about the CCL being Indistinguishable from Silver..? I was just pointing out that out. Edit.. here it is
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