Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[GaryDean26]

Whoa!
Doing some research and this one popped up on the internet from my googling.

Couldn't edit one this old, but it does contain some errors for those of you who may have read or are reading the whole thread and are new to Cream Legars (some threads just get too L-O-N-G.)

The Cream Legbars in private hands did not go to David Applegarth from Cambridge but rather to a gentleman from who David Applegarth obtained two Cream Legbars in 1987. The person was a student at Cambridge during the time of Punnett and Pease, as I understand it. His name was John Croome and he kept the Cream Legbar breed for the years spanning 1957 until his death in 1988.

So the above statement is wrong - it was 1987 before Mr. Applegarth was dealing with reproduction difficulty with Cream Legbars. It could easily be that after those 30-years the breed was very in-bred.

BTW - I will put in a plug here...for a working group or 'taskforce' of people who would like to evaluate the options of what range of cream color the Cream Legbar Club will eventually post on the website for guidance for especially those who are new to the breed, or for anyone who has some confusion about the coloration issue....Most likely the persons would have enough interest in the Cream Legbar breed and commitment to the breed to be in the CL Club. Should you have any interest in the project/process, then please send me a PM and an email where you can be contacted. Thanks!

Also, I have to add on my own personal note---since I have another breed that I have heard has a great deal of inbreeding because they were so rare at one point...most of the Cream Legbars I hatch jump right out of the shell and are really healthy chicks! Everyone that has pipped has hatched.

... A man named John Croome who had worked at Cambridge University on the Auto-sexing breed projects had some Cream Legbars. He gave some hatching eggs to Mr. David Applegarth in 1987. Two pullets were all that hatched and the following year Croome gave Applegarth a Gold Legbar cockerel to breed to the CLB hens....

As far as color goes you need to see my "Color Boy" and "Color Girl" That I saved from last fall's hatch, The boy is defiantly an even "pale butter" from head to tail but no photo can do justice to his true color. The pullet is more a silver color (she looks just like Robin). I am just as happy with how her color turned out. I think the cream Legbar evaluation at the Texas State fair in October would be a good place to evaluate color. There are 6 4H families that are committed to bring Legbars for this evaluation, and others may bring their cream legbars too.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Curtis keep me posted on dates for that. I will make the drive down to tx if I'm able.

 

[ChicKat]

As far as color goes you need to see my "Color Boy" and "Color Girl" That I saved from last fall's hatch, The boy is defiantly an even "pale butter" from head to tail but no photo can do justice to his true color. The pullet is more a silver color (she looks just like Robin). I am just as happy with how her color. I think the cream Legbar evaluation at the Texas State fair in October would be a good place to evaluate color. There are 6 4H families that are committed to bring Legbars for this evaluation, and others may bring their cream legbars too.

That is so interesting!! Can you find a nearby or matching color on OAC?
ETA - Robin is putting out an egg a day -- just like clockwork....I cannot believe that hen she is sooo good! :O)

That would be a really good place to test drive the results of the working group - Maybe we could have our prototype by before October.

 

[ChicKat]

In regards to cream coloration. There is a range but it is small. If the genes don't match they will not breed true. Any bird that is not double cream will breed gold, single cream and maybe double cream if mated single to single cream gene. It would seem to me that the issue of color would hopefully be done with birds that have been bred for more than 1 generation and that breed true for the most part since that is going to be part of the APA requirement. I think maybe getting an idea of the melanizers or enhancers in the breed would also be a good road to hoe going forward. I'm personally not interested as I have other things I've moved on to but cream color is an issue and I have questions on that still but if this is another avenue to add more gold colored birds to the 'acceptable' range of color we will not be doing the breed any good in the long run. There are still so many folks out there who eagerly post there photos here and on other sites just to face the disappointment of realizing they do not have a 'cream' legbar. Perpetuating a false phenotype is just not something I want to get into so I wish everyone luck with this endeavor and look forward to seeing what the results are.

Perhaps instead of trying to change it will more accurately be represented as trying to define (with solid references). I agree that not much examination has been done of melanizers and other unknowns and that should get more focus than it has in the past....

Thanks for the good wishes to the group.

 

[GaryDean26]

LOL - you were my source.... the reason I posted is because I was searching on Google and it took me to that post (of mine) BUT I know now that Applegarth got them in 1987 not 1957 as my original post stated---and it was so long ago and so old - IT couldn't be edited...so if someone else ever went in and researched the way I did---hopefully they would see my newer one as well......:O)

Okay...it just surprised me that you found that somewhere else. I guess you didn't. Revising the Club history is on my to do list. There are some typos and errors. Then I want to add another chapter that includes Croomes, Applegarth and possibly in Lee-Woolfs contribution to the present day Cream Legbar.

 

[KPenley]

Okay...it just surprised me that you found that somewhere else. I guess you didn't.  Revising the Club history is on my to do list.  There are some typos and errors.  Then I want to add another chapter that includes Croomes, Applegarth and possibly in Lee-Woolfs contribution to the present day Cream Legbar. 

Oooh I totally forgot about the modern chapter! Please let me know if you need anything.

 

[GaryDean26]

Send anything you have for the "modern chapter". I am still hoping to track down Sue & Shawn Hammond who owned and operated the Wernales Collections for 20 years before retiring in 2010. They Gold and Cream Legbars. I also would like to track down information from The Gobbet who is another hatchery that has carried Cream Legbars for decades.

 

[stake]

Hi all:

Posted a while back as I am getting involved in breeding CCLs....I am a backyard suburban situation which limits me in some ways...so...a few questions for the more experienced:

My roo is from the Jordan line....my single surviving girl from a trio+ 1extra boy is from a local breeder(hawks got the other)...I contacted her to fire up her bater for another trio....(both the girl were smallish and only one was crested)

so...if I get a trio....some may be brothers and sisters and they should not be bred...(from ChicKats post)...do breeders track the eggs as they hatch and ensure the brother sister thing doesn't happen (or am I naive)

if I hatch a few girls with my main roo....can I breed them back with my secondary CCL roo (he's huge for his age)...sorry if these are bush league questions...genetics are still a bit beyond my understand.....

 

[enola]

Hi all:

Posted a while back as I am getting involved in breeding CCLs....I am a backyard suburban situation which limits me in some ways...so...a few questions for the more experienced:

My roo is from the Jordan line....my single surviving girl from a trio+ 1extra boy is from a local breeder(hawks got the other)...I contacted her to fire up her bater for another trio....(both the girl were smallish and only one was crested)

so...if I get a trio....some may be brothers and sisters and they should not be bred...(from ChicKats post)...do breeders track the eggs as they hatch and ensure the brother sister thing doesn't happen (or am I naive)

if I hatch a few girls with my main roo....can I breed them back with my secondary CCL roo (he's huge for his age)...sorry if these are bush league questions...genetics are still a bit beyond my understand.....

Sounds like a plan to me. But I am not an expert. It is what I plan though.

No you are not naive, I breed Araucanas also. I can tell you who is mom & dad of every chicken I have AND when they hatched. ........

We are serious chicken people

 

[KPenley]

Hi all:

Posted a while back as I am getting involved in breeding CCLs....I am a backyard suburban situation which limits me in some ways...so...a few questions for the more experienced:

My roo is from the Jordan line....my single surviving girl from a trio+ 1extra boy is from a local breeder(hawks got the other)...I contacted her to fire up her bater for another trio....(both the girl were smallish and only one was crested)

so...if I get a trio....some may be brothers and sisters and they should not be bred...(from ChicKats post)...do breeders track the eggs as they hatch and ensure the brother sister thing doesn't happen (or am I naive)

if I hatch a few girls with my main roo....can I breed them back with my secondary CCL roo (he's huge for his age)...sorry if these are bush league questions...genetics are still a bit beyond my understand.....

In general it is not advisable to mate brother to sister, but offspring to parent is often used to create a new strain. So if you bought a trio of siblings you could breed the hens to your original rooster, and the new rooster to the pullet offspring of his sisters to create two new strains, or you could just get a pair of hens. Some breeders track well, and others don't. It's best to ask if you want unrelated chicks. Hth