Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

No my cockerel as no noticeable crest I have had some with it but there combs flopped over .I culled them all this cockerel has a straight comb but no noticeable crest or what can be consider a crest on a male a feather are two ?

IMO you really chose the right path to get to where you want. Straight comb - and find straight-combed (smallish and non-floppy - and bonus if she has 6 points) female for breeding to get the crest you wish (and keep the good comb that you already have). Smallish female crests will help with the development of a straight comb in your cockerels IMO. Luckily for me - that is the female crest that I prefer...

For folks who don't want to breed a line for roosters and a different line for females -- the look of the original CL before they went bouffant - kind of is an easier path to get a person's CLs closer to SOP appearance without double breeding.

BTW - when I was looking at your rooster and wondering about the crest---I noticed a LOT of really excellent attributes that he has.

 

[nicalandia]

I have yet to see a 100% straight comb and a nice noticeable crest, the larger the creast the combs get more folds

the Sulmtalers are about the Only other single comb bird with a nice Noticeable crest,




but thats because their comb placement is different than the Cream Legbars and also they have smaller combs than the legbars

 

[Localheronow]

I am glad we started this line of discussion the comb crest balance on the hens as well as the cocks. I for one think the cocks look a lot better with a straight comb. Then try to breed a small crest in would be perfect the floppy comb just looks ugly to me. I know there are many more things to work on with this bird but this is a good one.

 

[ChicKat]

Comb and Wattles on Blue Isbar rooster...

I am glad we started this line of discussion the comb crest balance on the hens as well as the cocks. I for one think the cocks look a lot better with a straight comb. Then try to breed a small crest in would be perfect the floppy comb just looks ugly to me. I know there are many more things to work on with this bird but this is a good one.

Good point Localheronow,

The SOP calls for a straight comb on the male - so even if a person disagreed with your evaluation of the looks - they would need to breed toward a straight comb to align with the SOP. I was looking in the Cream Legbar Club's handbook (it's on the website BTW, item 14 on the navigation bar on the left) in the Handbook on page 12 - probably the oldest picture we have of Cream Legbars---and who knows for certain - and it is very difficult to discern crests there.... (They all have squirrel tails too - to my view)----

I have one rooster here with the huge comb and wattles that I think are kind of ugly (like you Local, I'm putting my preference evaluations on my birds -- ugly stuff needs to be discarded from my CLs---) -- and I'm wondering how small the comb could be and still count as being in the "large" category...... Here's SOP:

Comb: Single; large, fine in texture, straight and upright, deeply and evenly serrated with six distinct points, extending well over the back of the head and following, without touching, the line of the head, free from side spikes, thumb-marks or twists.

My blue Isbar rooster---beautiful comb and wattles IMO - My understanding is that Cream Legbar is one of the breeds Silverudd used to create the Isbar----so I guess it would be possible to get neat combs--with enough generations of work (Of course Isbars are crestless so less problematic).....but the size - could that be considered large?

 

[blackbirds13]

This is one of the current points of discussion on another site.

There a lot of floppy combed Legbars but there are also ones with straight combs as there are some with crests and non-crested. The SOP calls for a straight comb and I have not heard of anyone having a preference for a floppy comb. Floppy combs are a defect but without a crest, just as without the double cream, the bird is not 'technically' a Cream Legbar and for show purposes may be DQ'd. My boy with the pretty straight comb has one that is noticeably smaller than the others but he is barred more darkly than I prefer but Niclandia prefers it. I have a some chicks in the brooder with noticeably smaller combs than the others and some that already, at less than 8 weeks, have red larger combs so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. This is him this past winter. His comb went untouched from frostbite but I'm looking to see if it will get any bigger. I've heard that growing them out in the colder months can help keep the size restrained. The cold tends to make the flop worse during the winter but they spring right up once the weather warms up so I'd only really judge the combs during the warmer months.

 

[nicalandia]

This is one of the current points of discussion on another site.

There a lot of floppy combed Legbars but there are also ones with straight combs as there are some with crests and non-crested. The SOP calls for a straight comb and I have not heard of anyone having a preference for a floppy comb. so I'd only really judge the combs during the warmer months.

Nice, very nice comb on that boy, its on the medium size spectrum but its straight

 

[ChicKat]

This is one of the current points of discussion on another site.

There a lot of floppy combed Legbars but there are also ones with straight combs as there are some with crests and non-crested. The SOP calls for a straight comb and I have not heard of anyone having a preference for a floppy comb. Floppy combs are a defect but without a crest, just as without the double cream, the bird is not 'technically' a Cream Legbar and for show purposes may be DQ'd. My boy with the pretty straight comb has one that is noticeably smaller than the others but he is barred more darkly than I prefer but Niclandia prefers it. I have a some chicks in the brooder with noticeably smaller combs than the others and some that already, at less than 8 weeks, have red larger combs so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. This is him this past winter. His comb went untouched from frostbite but I'm looking to see if it will get any bigger. I've heard that growing them out in the colder months can help keep the size restrained. The cold tends to make the flop worse during the winter but they spring right up once the weather warms up so I'd only really judge the combs during the warmer months.

Nice photo blackbirds13 - very cool the way his light hackles are by the snow in shadow and the barring on his breast by the snow in light.

.... guess I'm kind of lined up with nicalandia on that one - he is really a nice example, from what I see. I also see the melanin you are referencing - which I don't believe is really spelled out in the SOP other than "dark gray" mentioned in some places referencing the appearance of the barring -especially the breast of the male--

That size comb and wattles are really a nice balance IMO - though I realize that he isn't full grown in the picture. How old was he there and have the comb and wattles grown much since your photo?

ETA, General Question - for everyone..... although I think that size comb and wattles are nearly perfect - proportionately, to my eye---they probably aren't 'large' in the eyes of APA SOP. Do the comb and wattles continue to grow throughout a rooster's lifetime -- like they say humans nose and ears continue to grow throught out lifetime. I guess I feel a google moment coming on --->

 

[stake]

This is one of the current points of discussion on another site.

There a lot of floppy combed Legbars but there are also ones with straight combs as there are some with crests and non-crested. The SOP calls for a straight comb and I have not heard of anyone having a preference for a floppy comb. Floppy combs are a defect but without a crest, just as without the double cream, the bird is not 'technically' a Cream Legbar and for show purposes may be DQ'd. My boy with the pretty straight comb has one that is noticeably smaller than the others but he is barred more darkly than I prefer but Niclandia prefers it. I have a some chicks in the brooder with noticeably smaller combs than the others and some that already, at less than 8 weeks, have red larger combs so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. This is him this past winter. His comb went untouched from frostbite but I'm looking to see if it will get any bigger. I've heard that growing them out in the colder months can help keep the size restrained. The cold tends to make the flop worse during the winter but they spring right up once the weather warms up so I'd only really judge the combs during the warmer months.

not to go off topic...but how did you mitigate frostbite...?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Nice photo blackbirds13 - very cool the way his light hackles are by the snow in shadow and the barring on his breast by the snow in light.

.... guess I'm kind of lined up with nicalandia on that one - he is really a nice example, from what I see. I also see the melanin you are referencing - which I don't believe is really spelled out in the SOP other than "dark gray" mentioned in some places referencing the appearance of the barring -especially the breast of the male--

That size comb and wattles are really a nice balance IMO - though I realize that he isn't full grown in the picture. How old was he there and have the comb and wattles grown much since your photo?

ETA, General Question - for everyone..... although I think that size comb and wattles are nearly perfect - proportionately, to my eye---they probably aren't 'large' in the eyes of APA SOP. Do the comb and wattles continue to grow throughout a rooster's lifetime -- like they say humans nose and ears continue to grow throught out lifetime. I guess I feel a google moment coming on --->

My understanding is that the wattles continue to grow throughout their life. Some roosters who have a perfect size wattle for their breed when shown as a cockerel have too long of wattles for subsequent showing years. I am uninformed on whether this is also true of the comb. If it is true then not too so much of an extent, I don't see a noticeable size in Hugger's comb, at 2 years old, although I do notice the length of his wattles has increased.

not to go off topic...but how did you mitigate frostbite...?

The best way to avoid frostbite is to have a draft-free coop with good roofline ventilation- so moisture from the chicken's droppings can rise and exit the coop. More so than the cold it is COLD MOIST air especially when combined with AIRFLOW that causes frostbite. After the frostbite occurs, there isn't much you can do except keep it softened with Vetericyn spray or something similar to help it heal. Some people claim vaseline rubbed on the comb helps prevent frostbite- I've done some research and I'm not entirely sure it's true but if it seems to help then I'd say go for it!

 

[ChicKat]

Some people claim vaseline rubbed on the comb helps prevent frostbite- I've done some research and I'm not entirely sure it's true but if it seems to help then I'd say go for it!

Thanks for the wattles information! :O)

The theory behind Vaseline may be that it would be a barrier from the moisture I think..... We had some cold enough weather - even in South TX to make solid Ice blocks out of waterers, and even a 10-gallon watering tub (not sure if it was soild Ice through and through - but I couldn't break the top Ice on it) --- So not the cold a lot of people faced...but significant chill out there. Vaseline on the comb - no frost bite. (but I also had the rooster and 4 other chickens spending the night in the smaller size SnapLock coop--- Someone told me the degrees of heat a chicken gives off at night - never-the-less the internal thermometer in there was sending a signal of below freezing).......