Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[PaintsRule]

The coloring is way off on that boy as far a shades of color he should be as far as I am concerned, but I am not an expert. That also would be why they didnt autosex correctly. But he does look to have a crest.... any pics of your girls?

 

[KPenley]

I thought I'd come read up on Cream Legbars as I adopted four this past spring. I ordered all pullets and got two boys; so much for auto sexing! But I looked at the photos of Blackbirds13--beauties!-- and my roo (the other died at four days old) looks nothing like them and I'm wondering just what I have on my hands! Are there different breeds within the breed? Did I get super duped? Please advise! AND I'm off to read more. Thanks. Toe

Thank you for sharing your beautiful bird! The Autosexing being off is most likely because it appears that your boy is missing the barring gene from one parent (totally a guess and based on lack of barring in the tail), and that is an important part in creating the different patterns. The color is much more gold and red than a standard cream color variety because he appears to be lack the cream gene ig also. To the eye your Cock appears to be close to a gold crele legbar, and could be used in a breeding plan for that color variety if you could get your hands on some good gold crele pullets. Last year or two there were bad rumors circling that you had to cross your Legbar to a Leghorn or a PBR to produce viable offspring. While crossing to a Brown Leghorn is possible for new blood it takes culling all male offspring and a couple of generations to ensure the gentetics of the cresting, cream color, and Autosexing again (although the blue eggs usually stay blue). A cross not monitored can steer birds off course very quickly, and that may be what happened in your offspring. I doubt most breeders would intend to dupe people. Best wishes with your birds, and you may find more help if you post in the cream legbar or alternative Legbar threads.

 

[Toetwo]

KPenley, Thank you for that fascinating genetic info! I will check out the other threads.

Paints Rule, here are photos of the girls. Always willing to show them off! The first two are of Exclamation. The second two are of Surprise Mark. (Haven't had time to figure out their names yet.)

 

[GaryDean26]

Toetwo's cockerel definately has only one copy of the barring gene as shown by the dark grey barring on the tail rather than black and white barring on the tail. ALL pullets are single barred. The females have a W chromosome and a Z chromosome [WZ]. The W chromosome doesn't carry any of the sex-linked trates in chickens (like the barring gene and the Silver gene). The cockerel has two Z chromosomes [ZZ]. He should have two barring genes. The double dosage of the barring gene in males as what makes the breed autosexing. A singl barred male chick will look just like a female chick which is why toetwo got a male chick. The breeder either didn't know how to tell a non-barred hen from a barred hen or didn't know how to tell a double barred cockerel from a single barred cockerel and breed stock that were not to the standard together.


I have been trying to figure out the best shade of Cream for quite a while. About two years ago I even got brown leghorns to cross to a non-crested cream legbar pullet that I hatched to work on a cream light brown leghorn line so that I would have a better understanding of the cream color variations. As luck would have it I got a sport Cream cockerel in my starting group of light brown leghorns, but I had to end the project before I made any leghorn/legbar crosses so I am back to where I was 2-1/2 years ago looking at other cream breeds to learn about the color.

Here is a Cream Dutch Bantam cockerel vs a Light Brown (gold) Dutch Bantam.



The differences I am noticing about the color of these birds are:
1) The the red or gold color on the wing triangle of the Light Brown (gold) cockerel go all the way to the base of the feather while the cream cockerel has cream coloring at the base of the feather and only shows the red color at the tips of the feather.
2) The cream colored cockerel has lighter hackles and saddles than the light brown (gold cockerel).

Other things that I am noticing is that 1) Both are Red enhanced. That means that they have color modifying genes that are giving them a more red color than a wild type bird would have. The way I can tell they are red enhanced is that they have red color on their back. In the Cream Cockerel this is a chestnut color that matches the red on the bow of the wing or shoulder. In the light brown (gold) cockerel it is redder color, but still matches the color of the wing bow or shoulder. I also see that 2) both of the cockerels have a lighter color at the base of their hackles than at the top of their head. 3) the darker color at the top of their head matches their saddle feathers, but the lighter color at the bottom of their hackles doesn't.

I wish I had a knowledgeable Cream Dutch Bantam breeder who could tell me if the color on these birds were what the breed is shooting for in the cream variety or if the color was a "work in progress".

My goal after working with the Cream Legbars for about two years was to get the darker cream at the top of the head to extend all the way down to the base of the hackles and match the color of the saddles. I didn't want any red chestnut on the back or on the primaries, but wanted to keep some chestnut on the wing bow or shoulders but with some cream showing though. More like the cream Booted Bantam below. Note: The booted Bantam below doesn't have the red shoulders and doesn't have much color on the primaries or wing triangle. He does have some red on his back though. I think that this is more the base color of the really light "Rees" type Cream Legbars. For comparison is the Light Brown (gold) Booted Bantam.



Here are some pullets with the cream shown first then the gold. Not as much difference here in the booted bantams so I am focused a lot more on the cockerel color right now but my idea for the females was to have a grayer body color with lighter hackles and no red/chestnut around the ears or down the throat. The cream Dutch hens and these Booted Bantams show some with red on the throat and some with out. Nearly all have the chestnut around the ears though.



So...I am still adjusting my "ideal" to what breeds true. I would rather adjust my ideal that to get to a point that I have to double mate to get what I am after. First priority for my is a line that breeds true with out double mating. Second priority is to achieve a color that fall within the description of the SOP but that causes people to do a double take and stop at the show cage to see the attractive bird. If anyone one knows how to get there let me know.

 

[tdhenson86]

Hey, everyone! Sorry I haven't been around much. I'm almost done with my last masters degree. It's been a busy time doing school and working full-time plus managing the animals. I hope you're all well!

 

[fowlman01]

I have other pictures I will post, but this is very close to the type and color of the British Cream Legbar females. I will share more info and pictures when I start to feel normal again after this 10 day trip.

Walt

 

[Toetwo]

WOW! Beautiful birds!

 

[tdhenson86]

I have other pictures I will post, but this is very close to the type and color of the British Cream Legbar females. I will share more info and pictures when I start to feel normal again after this 10 day trip.

Walt

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing, Walt!

 

[fowlman01]

This is the darkest they want to see a male in the UK.




females:






Walt

 

[fowlman01]

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing, Walt!

These were shown in the Utility Class. The birds below were in the Rare Breeds Class. Apparently the Legbars can be shown in either class.

Walt