Cream Legbars

[blackbirds13]

How much would be allowed? Could it be written like the BCM allowance for some color on the breast? Do we want to write it at as a preference or as an allowance? A small degree of color on the BCM breast is not preferable but allowed. I read the Legbar shoulder allowance as the same tone. Do we need or want to write it so it states it should not hamper or negatively 'disturb' the wing barring? I'm torn on the shoulder color. I'm going to wait until I see what eliminating or lessening it does to my flock before I decide one way or the other on this.

 

[LaBella]

How much would be allowed? Could it be written like the BCM allowance for some color on the breast? Do we want to write it at as a preference or as an allowance? A small degree of color on the BCM breast is not preferable but allowed. I read the Legbar shoulder allowance as the same tone. Do we need or want to write it so it states it should not hamper or negatively 'disturb' the wing barring? I'm torn on the shoulder color. I'm going to wait until I see what eliminating or lessening it does to my flock before I decide one way or the other on this.

In bold is my personal concern with regards to the APA standard being built. Stating that some color is allowed, but not giving preference to color or lack of color would be ideal in my world, but I have to share this world, and I'm not the one making the decisions, lol.
I am OK with some chestnut is allowed equaling no chestnut is also allowed. I would just be concerned that some chestnut allowed would come to equal no chestnut preferred.

KPenley, it doesn't seem to me that the BPS "rewards" chestnut. It seems to me that the British prefer their roos to have as little color as possible, and that is what they breed for. Because that is what they breed for, and that is what is usually found in shows, should someone show a roo with minimal chestnut, it's possible he would place under those that show no color because he doesn't looks as though he should point properly because of the chestnut that they are not used to seeing.
And I want to state for the record, this is a hypothetical situation. I have never been to a British poultry show, and the last time I was at a livestock show in person, I was 14 years old and it was a 4H show my school was exhibiting at.
I am not casting aspirations on the ability of judges to do their jobs right, I have been a conformation judge, and I know the kind of training I had to go through, and I am sure poultry judging is even more stringent in it's guides, after all, I only had to learn 10 forms and 18 colors (not including the wilds, but we didn't judge the wilds based on conformation, we judged them based on how healthy they looked). A poultry judge has to learn... well.. I'm sure it's akin to an All Breed dog show judge, lol. I'm just saying it can be hard when you have an animal that fits the standard, BUT is not what a judge is used to seeing, and that may be why it seems the less colored roo is preferred in the UK.
As a parallel to dog showing, the Labrador Retriever standard allows a small amount of white on the chest. However, I have seen many times a higher quality dog with a small amount of white on the chest place under a lesser quality dog that had a solid colored chest.
Another breed, the American Staffordshire Terrier. This breed can be shown cropped or uncropped, but it's MUCH harder to ribbon with an uncropped Staff than it is with a cropped Staff. All things being equal, more often than no, a cropped Staff will place over an uncropped Staff even though the standard says that uncropped is preferred.
That is my concern for the birds here.

I am wondering if verbage along the lines of some chestnut shall not be penalized would be better than some chestnut allowed. Allowed makes it sound like we'll let it slide, but we don't like it, which may be why the UK roos are so light.
And this is probably better served in the SOP thread when I think about it, but I'm only on page 50, lolol.

 

[KPenley]

I'll answer here, but you're right we should probably move these discussions over to the SOP thread.

My question was a bit rhetorical. The PCGB does not reward chestnut, because it is supposed to be there in minimal or non-existing amounts. A bird will not be docked points for having "some" chestnut, but a heavily colored rooster should not be awarded as high color points as one with minimal or no red. Again...sorry for repeating myself...but this has nothing to do with preference (here or over the pond) and everything to do with the fact that we must reflect the existing standard in ours.

LaBella, you hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. Like it or not, that is exactly how judges read the standard in the UK, and we've been warned by our APA advisor to keep it similar here. We were actually asked if we had made it a bit too lenient, since the PCGB original read, "some chestnut smudges permissible" in the shoulders, coverts, and crest sections. But since we used verbiage used in other APA breed standard descriptions, it was deemed acceptable. I'm sure you've noticed in dog standards that there are certain terms used over and over again so that every judge and active participant can understand what it is they are looking for. The same thing applies to poultry judging, though the shows themselves are two entirely different worlds lol! You probably won't find tailgating amongst competitors out in the parking lot at a dog show

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[nicalandia]

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if that was the case the birds you see often would be rich colored, instead of Silver in tone

 

[KPenley]

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[nicalandia]

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most birds you see in the UK look like this, while only on color, some birds do have better shape and tail angle, this bird lack body and type I think. but it has good creast color and overall grey color..

 

[TherryChicken]

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He's actually a pretty boy

 

[nicalandia]

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well I think his color is what the Standard calls for except maybe lacking the chestnut but just look at his grey barring on shoulders, saddle, back and secondaries

 

[SallyinIndiana]

I have had 4 little ones hatch from the eggs I got on ebay. I'm thinking they might all be male. Still I'm hoping for at least 1 female.
Any opinions?




This is the one I'm hoping is a female.

 

[nicalandia]

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All males, 2 light and 1 dark, the Dark down is due to the Danish Leghorn blood introduced by Punnett long ago when creating the Legbar.