Cream Legbars

[KPenley]

OK ran out and took some photos- pretty bad, huh?

They are 12 weeks old today. She's looking pretty gold in the hackles, and has much nicer yellow to her legs. I knew my chances were slim to get a cream girl right off the bat but this one started feathering out light so I had hoped....





Here's her sister, MUCH darker (and I think just as gold) with light yellow legs, but with a shorter, straighter tail.



If these are my only choices which is better to breed from, or do I breed from both and CULL HEAVY? I don't even have a rooster yet (although I have things lined up), so it's a null point at the moment, but I would like to know for future reference...

I know it's hard to tell in pics but do they both have a bit of cream around the hackles? The lighter would be my first choice to breed, but I'd the give the darker a chance too. If, when mated to a closer to color match Rooster, the darker throws only dark chicks with no cream then you know she's headed for the laying pen. Thanks for the pics and sharing your pretty girls.

 

[KPenley]

Rinda, sorry about crooked tail. Maybe breed from both and cull heavily. In some of the things we are dealing with -- we don't know for certain yet what the genetic outcome will be until after the fact.

Nice post Normanack.

I had always thought that the F1 generation referred to hybrids. I did google out this and it was wikipedia awhile back that supported this. I have seen genetic discussion referring to the F generation as offspring of two purebreds.

My old understanding is that the F1 is a hybrid of two different breeds. So Horse + donkey = F1 mule; Brahama + Angus = F1 "Brangus". I think that I have heard of things like the F1 may be sterile as in the case of a Mule, I think, and that the generations don't 'breed true' as in the case of sex-links which are F1's. A back cross of parent to child is an F2 - although I have also heard that an F2 is an F1 bred to yet another breed. And that there is such a thing as a 'terminal' cross.

Adding to all this-- I have heard that in-breeding chckens will eventually result in sterility and decline. So if great granny had chickens and just let them run and interbreed, eventually the chickens would just stop producing/laying. (not meant by age, just the inbreeding through multiple generations)

Anyone here that could clear up the terminology for me. Thanks.

My understanding... breed 1 times breed 2 = F1 (AKA filial 1 or F1 hybrid)
F1 x F1 = F2
Back cross of any offspring to original parent is line breeding. (This is a type of inbreeding although not as dangerous as direct brother to sister)
Inbreeding for characteristics works best in line breeding to 3 or 4 generations, and then new blood is needed to renew the genetic material.
Some breeds have been inbred to 20 generations before reaching sterility or failure to create both males and females.
Terminal cross breeding is when you mate breed 1 to breed 2, resulting in F1. Then there are no more crosses between the cross breeds. new blood is usually brought in to lower the risk of lethal genetic material appearing.

 

[normanack]

 My understanding... breed 1 times breed 2 = F1 (AKA filial 1 or F1 hybrid)
F1 x F1 = F2
Back cross of any offspring to original parent is line breeding. (This is a type of inbreeding although not as dangerous as direct brother to sister)
Inbreeding for characteristics works best in line breeding to 3 or 4 generations, and then new blood is needed to renew the genetic material.
Some breeds have been inbred to 20 generations before reaching sterility or failure to create both males and females.
Terminal cross breeding is when you mate breed 1 to breed 2, resulting in F1. Then there are no more crosses between the cross breeds. new blood is usually brought in to lower the risk of lethal genetic material appearing.

I just found a really good site -- who knows, maybe I learned about it here --

It's a series.
http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/resources/genetics-mini-series/

There is a section on inbreeding.
http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/gms12-inbreeding-coefficients/

The series is 12 posts, with a number of follow-up supplements.

As I recall, she defines F1 as purely generational, not in the particular hybrid sense. Which is different from where I learned about it meaning hybrid, as in garden seeds.

 

[ChicKat]

I just found a really good site -- who knows, maybe I learned about it here --
It's a series.
http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/resources/genetics-mini-series/
There is a section on inbreeding.
http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/gms12-inbreeding-coefficients/
The series is 12 posts, with a number of follow-up supplements.
As I recall, she defines F1 as purely generational, not in the particular hybrid sense. Which is different from where I learned about it meaning hybrid, as in garden seeds.

Thanks Normanack and KPenley -

Looks like it is being used both ways. I may do some more digging -- and thanks for the links to the posts. :O)

 

[ChicKat]

You won't believe this cream legbar female:







I brought these two back into the house today to photograph - It is so easy to handle the little ones--and it was c-o-l-d and windy out for us!!! (Remember we're in the 80's during the day around here so this morning's 40's was tough on me.... :O)

The little female has whitish (light gray maybe) tips on some of her back feathers and some of her crest feathers.....

IMO this is from the trauma caused by the raccoon attack that pulled off her wing. I'm wondering what other strange manifestations of her growth will result. It has to have among other things changed her circulatory system.

Question, anyone else ever see white feathering on a clb juvenile chick? She was born Sept 3rd. I think it is like when a human has trauma and their hair 'turns white overnight'.

 

[GaryDean26]

Yes...I have seen the white spots.

I had one hen with white spots and one with out the spots of the first two hens I bred. Their offspring for the most part took after their mothers.

I asked a seasoned CLB breeder about the spots when I first noticed them and in reply was told to read the SOP. The SOP didn't look like it allowed for spots anywhere, but last month I got some photos from the same seasoned CLB breeder and noticed that some of the photos in that breeder's flock had the spots too. So...I am not too worried about them right now.

I am guessing that the spots may be a molting type gene. At any rate the molting gene seems to be pretty common in barred breeds. Non-barred birds derived from barred breed often have problems with the spots showing up.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks GaryDean

That is so interesting to me. I'm thinking in the case of this pullet anything could be unusual---so it's good to hear that it is something in other Clbs.

 

[OldChurchEggery1]

I notice that there are two Legbar threads here on BYC. One called "The Legbar Thread" and then this one. Is this one just for a particular variety (Cream Legbar) and the other is more general? There are so many pages on the other thread that I got through about the first and last 20 or so and said "Perhaps I'd better go to this thread instead." I've got an order in with Greenfire Farms for 3 male and 3 female cream legbars for next spring and I'd like to follow along with a group but am unsure where to start.

Thanks!

 

[ChicKat]

I notice that there are two Legbar threads here on BYC. One called "The Legbar Thread" and then this one. Is this one just for a particular variety (Cream Legbar) and the other is more general? There are so many pages on the other thread that I got through about the first and last 20 or so and said "Perhaps I'd better go to this thread instead." I've got an order in with Greenfire Farms for 3 male and 3 female cream legbars for next spring and I'd like to follow along with a group but am unsure where to start.

Thanks!

Great that you are going to get some cream legbars...it's a fun and exciting breed. Welcome to cream legbars!

Seems like I go into my profile and just post in which ever one has new things in it--- how's that for disorderly conduct? Sometimes the threads get so long, and there is a post you want to reference or re-read---and it just is impossible to find. Some way to iron it out would be a good thing.

 

[babymakes6]

I notice that there are two Legbar threads here on BYC. One called "The Legbar Thread" and then this one. Is this one just for a particular variety (Cream Legbar) and the other is more general? There are so many pages on the other thread that I got through about the first and last 20 or so and said "Perhaps I'd better go to this thread instead." I've got an order in with Greenfire Farms for 3 male and 3 female cream legbars for next spring and I'd like to follow along with a group but am unsure where to start.

Thanks!

Welcome! You will love them!