Cream Legbars

[normanack]

Have to vent. I was on craigslist like always and came across an ad for cream legbars so I had to check it out. Well, it is a kid selling cream legbar day old chicks only in trios to people who "agree not to mongrelize them because once the autosexing trait is lost, it is gone forever" He is selling trios for $125 to pay for college. I called and asked what lines they are from and he was all sorts of grumpy and defensive about it when he said that there was only 1 line from GFF and that they were direct imports. I had to slow him down and tell him there were different lines and that I got mine in February as line a and line c. He said he got his at the end of february and there was only 1 line available. Then he says in the ad that he has the only CLB's in the whole state which is really a lie. So, I posted an ad on craigslist for our farm that we're taking pre-orders for chicks hatched at the end of the month and I'm selling them for much cheaper because I want more folks to have them so there is more diversity.

Sorry, just had to get it off my chest, the guy seemed so snippy about the whole thing

Eek. Buyer beware. Good on you for your approach (i.e. truth) and for encouraging the spread and diversity of CLs (i.e. price).

While I have no problem with people pricing high-quality birds high, I wonder where his are on the scale to get $125 for three.

 

[1muttsfan]

Prices for the rare and coveted can be outrageous. I saw an ebay listing for 9 CL eggs, the buy it now price was $125 - plus shipping.

Speaking of coveting, I still desire some of those rose comb birds!

 

[ChicKat]

So as i delve in to cream legbars ( i plan on getting about 4-5 dozen eggs in the next couple months), i can't under stand the breeding thoughts or lack-there-of that were put into the Legbars in the American Side.

When chickens are imported from other countires a small portion is brought in representing a healthy cross-section of the whole gene-pool from the other country, lets call this the invasion . But after the invasion chickens are ussally spilt up into smaller groups, than breed some more, and line breeding traits, and just plain old inbreeding. And from their we get a depression from inbreeding and than we lose the breed. So basically what i am saying here is that the population should stay togather as a group as long as possible ( i would like to say 5 generations at a min or 5 years what ever time is longer) so they have time to adapt to the new environment and mix the genes around really good.

Well i must start planning my trip to England to 'learn more about my English heritage' <read> pick up some more Light Sussex, and Cream Legbars </read>

Hi call ducks--
Thanks for your insights...and welcome to the world of Cream Legbars. Several people have been aware of the concern that you have....and some of the Cream Legbar Club members are working to keep track of the breeding to prevent that exact depression that you mentioned. I found an old article lately from 1916 more or less in defense of in breeding and line breeding - pm me if you would like a link - it is from an old poultry magazine that is online....

Several approaches to prevent the genetic depression have been considered from the start. As Flying put in his post Greenfire Farms has carefully obtained different birds, and those of us who have them are attempting to keep track of the lines that came originally from Greenfire. There are breeding approaches - such as "spiral breeding" - and redchicken9 posted some information about this approach in a long-ago post in one of the Cream Legbar threads on BYC - a quicker way to find info on that approach may be to google spiral breeding.

Your concerns resonate in the CL community, believe me. Research on how some of the rare and endangered species breeding programs work, the heritage fowl preservation, and places like the Wild Animal Park in San Diego where birds like the California Condor has been brought back from extinction show that healthy birds/animals can be developed from a small starting gene pool. A big discussion awhile back asked what out crosses were needed, and the bottom line became that probably no out crosses are actually needed . Somewhere, the statistic of 15-generations of chickens of close inbreeding (not line breeding) would be needed to produce the genetic depression that you are speaking of.

Keep up the ideas and conversation these are important aspects that breeders need to consider.

 

[ChicKat]

Have to vent. I was on craigslist like always and came across an ad for cream legbars so I had to check it out. Well, it is a kid selling cream legbar day old chicks only in trios to people who "agree not to mongrelize them because once the autosexing trait is lost, it is gone forever" He is selling trios for $125 to pay for college. I called and asked what lines they are from and he was all sorts of grumpy and defensive about it when he said that there was only 1 line from GFF and that they were direct imports. I had to slow him down and tell him there were different lines and that I got mine in February as line a and line c. He said he got his at the end of february and there was only 1 line available. Then he says in the ad that he has the only CLB's in the whole state which is really a lie. So, I posted an ad on craigslist for our farm that we're taking pre-orders for chicks hatched at the end of the month and I'm selling them for much cheaper because I want more folks to have them so there is more diversity.

Sorry, just had to get it off my chest, the guy seemed so snippy about the whole thing

The trouble with kids at the end of high school is that they know everything --

I kind of wish that we had a way to really track the lineage of the chickens to really keep the lines straight...I know that the pair I got were yellow-leg band (male) and green leg band (female) - so their progeny are chartreuse leg band (mixing yellow and green) LOL -- I would want to get red leg band or blue leg band were I to build up my flock -- right?? or their off spring (purple legband)--

BTW, mine were hatched Jan 9th of 2012 - and came from Greenfire - (as all legal Cream Legbars did or their ancestors did, right?)

Sorry to be facetious about what you went through with a snippy kid. It may be something that he will mature into to be gracious, and helpful to others who have an interest in the breed and don't want them to be cash cows (pardon my mixing metaphors) -- Interesting that he said he didn't want to have them mongrelized -- and has a concern to preserve autosexing.

OK off my soap box.

 

[ChicKat]

Eek. Buyer beware. Good on you for your approach (i.e. truth) and for encouraging the spread and diversity of CLs (i.e. price).

While I have no problem with people pricing high-quality birds high, I wonder where his are on the scale to get $125 for three.

x2

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Looking at the pics of his birds, it looks like there are 2 trios, only one rooster looks crested with the hens and the other rooster all being smooth headed. The color is about average for the birds produced at that time

 

[ChicKat]

Looking at the pics of his birds, it looks like there are 2 trios, only one rooster looks crested with the hens and the other rooster all being smooth headed. The color is about average for the birds produced at that time

Link?

Sometimes rooster's crests are hard to see... BTW did you know that in the UK there were people who took on the task of being 'Cream Legbar Police' to remind people who were advertising non-standard CLs that maybe they were only part CLs? I think I would like to 'interview' them.

 

[call ducks]

See i like the smooth headed birds better than the crested.... Maybe that's because we get freezing rain here a lot!

 

[KPenley]

See i like the smooth headed birds better than the crested.... Maybe that's because we get freezing rain here a lot!

You should look into Gold and Silver Legbars then! Neither of them is crested

 

[call ducks]

I am excited about the legbars. Here's my plan

Give them the next 4-5 generations to chill out and meld while all those genetics mix and mingle, and give them time to get used to the environment around here ( and maybe do a few mixins). After that work on making them a breed great granny her self would be proud off (She was English, and meet my great grand father over there in WWI while he was in the RAF)