Cream Legbars

[caychris]

If you aren't breeding to a standard why pick a breed at all? Why not just get barnyard mixes. Using a standard to breed to is what make a chicken/dog/cat/horse identifiable as a breed.

Because there are characteristics of this breed I am interested in. (Blue Egg layer, autosexing) I'm not saying that breeding to a standard isn't good only question if the show standards tend to weaken other characteristics thus making it harder to achieve the standard because the sought after genes compete with genes that promote production. Since Im not as concerned with showing the bird as its egg laying qualities I don't know if I need to be looking at the same things. A floppy comb CLB is still a CLB

I've seen a number of people complain about hatch rates with this breed. So I begin to question does weeding out a trait that is not show worthy also weed out other things eventually making the breeding line weaker.
Not saying anything does but just wondering.

Does promoting a certain set of defined colors end up reducing the number of eggs laid or shorten the laying life. So in essence I'm wondering if there are competing traits within the breed especially when it comes to show vs production.

 

[dee06]

I don't think Mildred can quite believe the size of my 10 week old cochin butt

 

[ChicKat]

Quote:
Hey caychris - Love your tag line.... Seems like I have heard that focus on ONLY ONE TRAIT is not the best approach for any breed. pouhamu - a standard of perfection is really a great thing...the Cream Legbar being new in the USA has a draft standard, and for the most part - we are thinking that the breed will be lucky if APA acceptance would happen in the next decade. During the next decade a number of things may be discovered and the 'style' may change - just take a look through historic chicken info and you will see that breeds have changed over the years.... So in the mean time a lot of people appreciate that there is a Legbar that is an autosexing breed (which is so very useful that those of us who raise them are plumb spoiled by the trait.), Lays a blue egg, and has a crest.... IF as caychris wishes for his flock, certain individuals do not meet the SOP - does that make the bird any less desirable if the bird has a trait that he IS looking for - such as high egg production. It makes sense that people who are attracted to a breed would promote, breed for and protect the traits that drew them to the breed in the first place. IMO it is a really legitimate question. In theory, the SOP would not be detrimental to the breed, HOWEVER there are some instances where over focus on just one thing may have led to diminished capacity in another aspect of the breed. In fact, the older lines of CLs from Greenfire Farms may have better production rates than the newest line. This is a definite consideration for people who want the best production. Here is another example. If the SOP calls for a six pound hen - and I have a 3.5 or 4.0 pound hen who daily lays an extra large, extra blue egg -- what would be the advantage of seeking to bulk up the hen ? Homesteaders, Livestock raisers etc. look at things like feed conversion ratio. Showers approach their flocks from a totally different place. Here is another thing... if one needs to keep one pen of chickens to get 'correct' males and a different pen to obtain 'correct' females -- to meet an SOP - then if the flock owner's original objective was sustainability--- does that requirement help or harm the breed. Should the SOP match the breed as it truly is? Or should the SOP be an idealized unreachable thing that some folks adhere to and breed toward - If you were to find out that some of the things in an SOP are impossible (Sigrid van Dort mentioned one that is written into the Dutch standards - ) --- Then what would you do? With the very long horizon of a true accepted SOP for the CL - each raiser should perhaps concentrate on the characteristics that drew them to the breed and are important to them. Now - floppy comb--- written into the draft standard as acceptable for the female - but not acceptable for the male. Will a straight comb harm egg production - probably not..would a floppy comb be a DQ in the CL show ring - probably. It occurs to me that the looks-only approach that the APA has may leave out important traits. I had thought that when I discovered the Sustainable Poultry Network I would encounter more Kindrid Spirits, and to a degree, I did - but seems that heritage poultry are their focus. Reminds me I should go ask Jim about that. The individuals own plan for their flock should outweigh any other influence....JMO

 

[cutipatooti]

I don't think Mildred can quite believe the size of my 10 week old cochin butt

Too cute and funny!

 

[ChicKat]

oops double post

 

[ChicKat]

oops triple post -- it wasn't me - really. LOL

 

[dee06]

Thanks ChicKat, she is a pretty girl only had her 2 weeks and she has fitted in with the other 9 chicks that I hatched under a broody really well

 

[caychris]

Quote: I think in many ways with as many bloodlines in this breed it may be as challenging as Delawares are. I agree take the SOP with a grain of salt. Ideally it shouldnt harm the breed but most breeders work with so little stock that good statistics are often hard to come by especially when you aren't sure what you are looking for.

I one day hope to start working on a project with a breed like Delawares or CCLB that will generate quite a bit of data that might be useful for breeders.

I think one of the big difficulties in any breeding program is not keeping enough correlating data. In part this is due to the cost of maintaining a larger flock of birds and the relatively short fertility cycle for most hens. Not to mention hatching difficulties.

I have a very basic breeding question. What do you think would be the optimum clutch size to get good broad gene representation from a single pairing. Realizing that eggs really need to be set about every 1-2 weeks to ensure good viability. How many eggs would be good from a single pair to ensure a good breadth of the mix. (Including possible hatch rate difficulties)

 

[KPenley]

100 is always the goal for proper gene representation. If you set 10-12 eggs every two weeks you could probably reach those numbers in 15 hatches or less ( 6 months to a year depending on whether the hens go broody, molting, outside factors, etc). Is that what you were asking?

 

[caychris]

100 is always the goal for proper gene representation. If you set 10-12 eggs every two weeks you could probably reach those numbers in 15 hatches or less ( 6 months to a year depending on whether the hens go broody, molting, outside factors, etc). Is that what you were asking?

Pretty much. is that the representation from a single pairing? I realize the male genes are going to usually be spread over multiple hens. Considering how far apart the differing hatches can be it will take some time to collect and correlate the data from the pairing.

I was hoping to get 2 possibly 3 roos over the same hens in a year but that might be a bit ambitious. I was aiming for smaller clutch sizes though so I could compare roos vs hens genetics.
Of course this was a project of recreating delawares though. I think breeding within an established breed would be a bit different.