Cream Legbars

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I'm also not 100% sure that I understand the question - so I will kind of rephrase to see if I 'got it' You are kind of asking how many offspring you need to get the traits that you are looking for right? One approach is Punnett's square - simple example - blue egg gene crossed with white egg layer -- how many do I need to hatch to get what I am seeking? Am I understanding the question? -- but this example presupposes that the original pair are homozygous, and that you know the genetics of the parent birds.. Here is Henk's chicken calculator http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCO.html you can use the default - we call it wild-type here and in Europe they call it Partridge. It is also called black-patterned gold duckwing -- there are other names used for reference and Henk has them in the calculator in different languages... To change the defaults to the CL genes is just a couple of clicks - PM me if you would like an article that explains the CL genes applied to the calculator. Put in the things that you wish to 'experiment' with and then when you click 'calculate crossing' - one of the things that Henk has computed is the number of chickens needed to hatch to get that particular combination. Add to that these are statistics...so it may say that you need to hatch - say 6 or 8 to get a certain trait.... what that means it is occurs STATISTICALLY 1/6 of the time....and by hatching 6 you will have a probability of getting that gene make up. But you could miss it or you could hatch 1 and get it -- because it is roulette wheel the way particular genetics get passed along..or as Paul Bradshaw of Greenfire Farms once stated for chickens it is a genetic lottery. You can use the chicken calculator with just a bit of practice and see the statistical likelihood of what you would get. --- again you know about statistics...right? Mark Twain is famous for saying that 'there are liars, there are dam* liars, and then there are statisticians.'
 
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Breeds change over time for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the standard changing. Politics, a popular breeder that wins and has a certain look so people breed towards that look as opposed to SOP, etc etc. look at bulldogs for example, they can barely get out of their own way and they were a working breed! If you are keeping any pure bred and are just having it for yourself then SOP may not mean a whole lot to you. I would hazard a guess that very few people keeping many purebred chickens don't end up dabbling in breeding at some point
I would have a hard time believing breeding toward a standard would decrease production qualities. Seeing as the breed was developed as a dual purpose bird and the original developers were able to get egg and carcass production while still maintaining a bird visually identifiable as a cream legbar. I would think it would have been important as well. You know the whole "Joe smoe down the road has birds that look like a, b, c and they are great egg layers". I want those same qualities I'm going to pick birds that look like Joe's birds. I think the key and my goal is going to be balance. Don't forsake egg qualities for a pretty color, or the opposite.
 
ChicKat said:
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I know the basic bird cross that produces a Delaware and I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss their breeding program. For the CLB and the eventual cross with UofA blues. I will have to grow out a number of females to the point where laying traits can be recorded. However it might be important to know if there is a male component to this and which males produces hatches with better rates and hens that lay well. Those same males may or may not be show quality in and of themselves. I wanted to be able to use a number of males over the same hens to help determine the results and be able to compare the clutch results.
I know that hens determine the gender of the eggs and have some control over if they actually fertilize the eggs.

I was looking to determine if say 20-30 eggs from a pairing in a year would be a good genetic sample.
In the matrix with 3 roos and a trio of hens per roo we would be looking at 60-90 eggs per roo with only 20-30 being a particular hen for each breeding period being able to rotate the roos through 3 sets of trios would produce 180 to 270 eggs for each male with 20-30 from any one female and each female producing 60 -90 eggs with each divided between the 3 males.

That's 540 -810 eggs to hatch.and a lot of birds to keep track of. If I did this for 2 years in a row I would have quite a bit of data to track. I would need to keep most if not all the hens for more than a year to measure egg production. The boys could be culled earlier based on a few criteria such as similarity or improvement over the current males.
Click to expand...
 
pouhamu said:
Breeds change over time for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the standard changing. Politics, a popular breeder that wins and has a certain look so people breed towards that look as opposed to SOP, etc etc. look at bulldogs for example, they can barely get out of their own way and they were a working breed! If you are keeping any pure bred and are just having it for yourself then SOP may not mean a whole lot to you. I would hazard a guess that very few people keeping many purebred chickens don't end up dabbling in breeding at some point
I would have a hard time believing breeding toward a standard would decrease production qualities. Seeing as the breed was developed as a dual purpose bird and the original developers were able to get egg and carcass production while still maintaining a bird visually identifiable as a cream legbar. I would think it would have been important as well. You know the whole "Joe smoe down the road has birds that look like a, b, c and they are great egg layers". I want those same qualities I'm going to pick birds that look like Joe's birds. I think the key and my goal is going to be balance. Don't forsake egg qualities for a pretty color, or the opposite.
Click to expand...
Yay!!! and BTW welcome to BYC and the Legbars threads...Looking forward to hearing how it develops for you.

Very good strategy IMO -- like the 'golden mean'. And, keeping with the original intent of the Cream Legbar is a best practices. Autosexing, blue eggs - what's not to love...?? I always think of them as the all around chicken - especially for back yarders and people who can only have females where they live -- as well as people who want lots of blue eggs.

:O)
 
This is Kramer, our new addition along with (2) girls. Much less gold than Stanley and the girls have nice crests. I will post better pics of the girls soon.





 
ChicKat said:
..... But to eliminate what may grow into your best of the three pullets because she has too much 'gold' may not be the best path to get the excellence into your flock.

good luck with your choice!
Click to expand...
WOW, this information is good to know. I was culling all of my "red" color headed Cream Legbars because I thought the color was not allowed and the blood was somehow "tainted". I now need to rethink this color thing.
 
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