Creating a new breed or breed color... I know this had been asked before!

[centrarchid]

I am attempting as you are contemplating. You need an ideal to be breeding towards in the beginning. You need a lot of breeding pens. I would start with a game chicken breed that has some of the characteristics you are looking for. That will promote soundness in the line you are to develop. My project will take a solid 20 years; already 6 years into it and still not breeding true let alone setting up to define line to be consistent with any standard.

 

[guybrody]

I put my blue old English game bantam rooster over my silver seabright hens I want blue seabrights.
Am I going in the right direction

 

[Wappoke]

I put my blue old English game bantam rooster over my silver seabright hens I want blue seabrights.
Am I going in the right direction

male blue (not lavender) x silver sebright = F1 offspring

male silver sebright x blue (not lavender) = F1 offspring

# 1 You cross a male sebright over a female oegb.

This will ensure that all the F1 offspring carry sex-linked dermal melanin. This gene is necessary in order to produce blue shanks on your blue sebright. See description below for F1 plumage color.

The F1 offspring will also carry the dominant rose comb gene and the dominant henny feathering gene.

Cross a somewhat blue F1 x somewhat black F1 = F2 offspring with varying plumage colors. Keep hatching F2 chicks until you produce a male ( henny feathered) and female that are mostly blue, have slatey blue shanks and rose-combed offspring. Also select for body type etc.

Then cross the best looking F2 offspring. Cross blue x black or blue x blue and you should produce some good looking blue offspring from the cross.

If body type is a problem- you will have to outcross your blue sebrights to silver sebrights to correct the body type issue; then select the best F1 from the outcross and cross them selecting for body type and plumage color.



# 2 If you cross a blue male oegb over a female sebright; it is best to only use the males for breeding. If you backcross an F1 male to a female blue oegb, you will have to hatch many more BC1F1 chicks to get results. This backcross will produce BC1F1 chicks that do not have sebright characteristics- the BC1F1 offspring will be more like the oegb and less like the sebright.

Sebright carry two genes that will tend to remove the blue or black from the breast, head, neck hackle and onto the back of the F1. Basically, the F1 from cross 1 or 2 will be front end non-black with black spangling (back end black) or non-blue with blue spangling (back end blue).

 

[SeneyMaker]

First, don't let anyone tell you not to create a new breed. You will learn more than any A.P.A. member ever will in the process.

You CAN create a new breed. Will it be accepted by the A.P.A.? Highly doubtful. But that does not need to be your goal. Fact is, if I had a really good bird, I wouldn't dare bring it to a chicken show. Only birds you wish to sell or kill in the parking lot after the show should go to a chicken show. I'm serious. If you are going to create a new breed, look up topics on bio-security and be strict about it. There is nothing more frustrating than losing years of work because some other bird next to yours was a carrier, but showed no symptoms. Therefore, don't even consider having a new breed be accepted by the APA. It is not necessary and you can have a lifetime of fun perfecting your own breed.

If others join you in creating that breed, then all the better. And I would strongly urge you to find a "buddy" somewhere that will have the same goal for your new breed. It will help to alleviate in-breeding depression. And you will experience it. A "breed" is very inbred. It is just a fact of life. With two to four "lines" of the same breed, you will have enough birds to keep it at bay.

The best first-step is to identify the traits you want in a bird and write them down. The two most important are type and color.

Now write down what you believe the genotype is for the new phenotype you have described.

Once you know that, then look at existing chicken breeds that are close to your requirements on the basis of the genotype. Figure out the absolute fewest number of breeds required to get the genes you will need.

Do not start with junkyard birds. (Or should I say, “barnyard fowl".) Find the BEST birds to start with. You will find them at private breeders, not hatcheries. By beginning with "pure" breeds, you will eliminate a few genes that will cause you future problems and you will arrive at your new breed significantly faster. The faster, the better because of in-breeding depression. Only take eggs from the breeders. Do not begin with adults. If you can see the brooding facilities and they are not near adult birds, you could take your chances with young chicks. But frankly, I would buy eggs and hatch them myself.

If you have other chickens you are in trouble. They probably are carriers of disease. It is your choice to get rid of them or not. The less disease pressure, the better. But the the fact is, if they had diseases, it is in the soil and housing already. Just do your best for bio-security and move forward.

Next, determine a breeding program. Sometimes it is best to begin with two separate “lines” and then bring them together in F3.

Here are some things to remember: You do not need to hatch a ton of F1 chicks. Most will be heterozygous identical. However, things are much different for F2. In order to beat statistics, you need to hatch as many as you can afford to. If you do not, expect it to take many more years to get to where you want to be. When the F2 chicks are adults, you will have a lot of segregants and recombinants to choose from. Again, this is how you beat statistics. Choose breeders from this group that most closely match the genotype you are looking for. Sometimes you may need to choose complimentary birds if you cannot get most of the genes you are looking for in one bird.

If your new breed requires 3 or 4 breeds, you most definitely need to establish more than one line. You will chase your tail if you do not.

When reaching the F3 and F4 generations you will need to pay attention to chick down color, juvenile feather color, and adult undercolor. If you can identify the color you desire in a pure breed that you used in your program, look at the color of ALL of the feathers and try to match it to your new breed. This will help when selecting breeders for color. Spend a lot of time looking at the finer details. That will get you to where you need to go.

Again, ignore those that tell you that it cannot be done. It can. I have done it with the Seney breed years ago. You can visit my rjseney website to see for yourself. I never attempted to establish my breed with the A.P.A, but Seneys were a real breed and bred true to type and colors. I did not need any organization to tell me so. And here is another tidbit of info. There isn’t an APA member in the world that can tell you the genotype of any bird put up for show. Many are not purebreds, but the breeder got lucky after crossing out to get hybrid vigor back. To test my theory, I made a chicken from junk genes and put it up for show as an established breed. It won. It didn’t even have that breed in it. But I knew the phenotype and made it. A chicken is a chicken. And no, I did not sell the bird falsely to an unsuspecting person. I merely wanted to prove a point.

With that being said, the “pure” breeders are valuable resources. They do try to keep genes in the correct order by trying to adhere to the Standard of Perfection. However, always remember; there is no such thing as a “pure” breed. Every bird has a unique genotype, regardless if their phenotype matches a specification. I can take a “pure” breed and within 5 generations create a different new breed by only using those pure bred birds. I’m serious.

Good luck with your project. You will learn more by doing it than by simply breeding somebody else’s chickens that are already made. As much as we need the pure breeders to keep genes alive, we also need those born with an adventurous spirit to keep the hobby thriving.


RJ Seney

 

[guybrody]

First, don't let anyone tell you not to create a new breed. You will learn more than any A.P.A. member ever will in the process.

You CAN create a new breed. Will it be accepted by the A.P.A.? Highly doubtful. But that does not need to be your goal. Fact is, if I had a really good bird, I wouldn't dare bring it to a chicken show. Only birds you wish to sell or kill in the parking lot after the show should go to a chicken show. I'm serious. If you are going to create a new breed, look up topics on bio-security and be strict about it. There is nothing more frustrating than losing years of work because some other bird next to yours was a carrier, but showed no symptoms. Therefore, don't even consider having a new breed be accepted by the APA. It is not necessary and you can have a lifetime of fun perfecting your own breed.

If others join you in creating that breed, then all the better. And I would strongly urge you to find a "buddy" somewhere that will have the same goal for your new breed. It will help to alleviate in-breeding depression. And you will experience it. A "breed" is very inbred. It is just a fact of life. With two to four "lines" of the same breed, you will have enough birds to keep it at bay.

The best first-step is to identify the traits you want in a bird and write them down. The two most important are type and color.

Now write down what you believe the genotype is for the new phenotype you have described.

Once you know that, then look at existing chicken breeds that are close to your requirements on the basis of the genotype. Figure out the absolute fewest number of breeds required to get the genes you will need.

Do not start with junkyard birds. (Or should I say, “barnyard fowl".) Find the BEST birds to start with. You will find them at private breeders, not hatcheries. By beginning with "pure" breeds, you will eliminate a few genes that will cause you future problems and you will arrive at your new breed significantly faster. The faster, the better because of in-breeding depression. Only take eggs from the breeders. Do not begin with adults. If you can see the brooding facilities and they are not near adult birds, you could take your chances with young chicks. But frankly, I would buy eggs and hatch them myself.

If you have other chickens you are in trouble. They probably are carriers of disease. It is your choice to get rid of them or not. The less disease pressure, the better. But the the fact is, if they had diseases, it is in the soil and housing already. Just do your best for bio-security and move forward.

Next, determine a breeding program. Sometimes it is best to begin with two separate “lines” and then bring them together in F3.

Here are some things to remember: You do not need to hatch a ton of F1 chicks. Most will be heterozygous identical. However, things are much different for F2. In order to beat statistics, you need to hatch as many as you can afford to. If you do not, expect it to take many more years to get to where you want to be. When the F2 chicks are adults, you will have a lot of segregants and recombinants to choose from. Again, this is how you beat statistics. Choose breeders from this group that most closely match the genotype you are looking for. Sometimes you may need to choose complimentary birds if you cannot get most of the genes you are looking for in one bird.

If your new breed requires 3 or 4 breeds, you most definitely need to establish more than one line. You will chase your tail if you do not.

When reaching the F3 and F4 generations you will need to pay attention to chick down color, juvenile feather color, and adult undercolor. If you can identify the color you desire in a pure breed that you used in your program, look at the color of ALL of the feathers and try to match it to your new breed. This will help when selecting breeders for color. Spend a lot of time looking at the finer details. That will get you to where you need to go.

Again, ignore those that tell you that it cannot be done. It can. I have done it with the Seney breed years ago. You can visit my rjseney website to see for yourself. I never attempted to establish my breed with the A.P.A, but Seneys were a real breed and bred true to type and colors. I did not need any organization to tell me so. And here is another tidbit of info. There isn’t an APA member in the world that can tell you the genotype of any bird put up for show. Many are not purebreds, but the breeder got lucky after crossing out to get hybrid vigor back. To test my theory, I made a chicken from junk genes and put it up for show as an established breed. It won. It didn’t even have that breed in it. But I knew the phenotype and made it. A chicken is a chicken. And no, I did not sell the bird falsely to an unsuspecting person. I merely wanted to prove a point.

With that being said, the “pure” breeders are valuable resources. They do try to keep genes in the correct order by trying to adhere to the Standard of Perfection. However, always remember; there is no such thing as a “pure” breed. Every bird has a unique genotype, regardless if their phenotype matches a specification. I can take a “pure” breed and within 5 generations create a different new breed by only using those pure bred birds. I’m serious.

Good luck with your project. You will learn more by doing it than by simply breeding somebody else’s chickens that are already made. As much as we need the pure breeders to keep genes alive, we also need those born with an adventurous spirit to keep the hobby thriving.


RJ Seney

thank you Mr RJ Seney
Your very inspiring

 

[SeneyMaker]

You are very much welcomed. Good luck with your projects.