Creating tru dp breed

[Redneckracing14]

I've been wanting to for a long try to breed a more true dual purpose breed of chicken the hatchery chicks are just to geared for egg producers only. So what I'm wanting to do is start with 25 slow white broilers from welp ive read alot from people and they say they are more or less a meat line of white rocks. I also fully aware I'm not going to get cornish x chicks from these as I dont I just want to try to breed these chickens to something that produce eggs and a good size meat carcass in around 16 to 18 weeks any idea what I can cross breed these with I currently have a nice Rhode island red rooster and a few leghorn hens I no nixing them with these will add to the laying ability what else

 

[Hidrainja4]

This is just an idea but www.freedomrangerhatchery.com carries a line of meat Delawares. I would start there. I have a Delaware from Meyer Hatchery it is a big bird that lays big but not extra large egg every other day. The Delaware formerly know as Indian River was a commercial broiler before the Cornish cross. Most of the genetic work is already done for you. At least study the genetic of the Delaware before you get started. Set some goals what would be satisfactory meat production and egg production because a living being only has so much energy. Splitting between egg and meat production understandably means you will not get maximum production of both. Good luck

 

[Redneckracing14]

I read it the Delaware max weight is 6 lbs at maturity I was hoping for 10 hence why I went with the slow broilers

 

[Ridgerunner]

Back in the mid-1900's, before the Cornish X took over the commercial chicken meat business Delaware, New Hampshire, and certain strains of White Rock were the primary breeds used for commercial meat in the US. Hatcheries specialized in breeding them for meat. Several years back someone on this forum had a link to an advertisement from the 1930's saying their Delaware chicks could grow to 4 pounds at 10 weeks. At the time that was something to brag about. But hatcheries stopped breeding anything for meat except the Cornish X about 70 years ago. Each hatchery is different but as far as I am concerned today's hatchery Delaware, New Hampshire, and White Rock are not really different than any other dual purpose breed.

Individual breeders instead of hatcheries may be a much better place to look if you want breeding stock. If you look at the SOP for Delaware the target weight for a grown rooster is 8-1/2 pounds. I believe the New Hampshire SOP weight is similar. I doubt very many hatchery Delaware or New Hampshire roosters hit these weights. Even the SOP ones are generally on a special feeding program.

I looked at Welp's White Broilers, not sure what is going on with them. They are not Cornish X but the weights given appear heavier than the 1930's meat birds. I suspect someone has invested some time and effort in breeding them. They are only sold straight run.

My first suggestion since you've identified these would be to get some and raise them. See what you think of them, they may suit you as is. Hatch eggs from the hens that lay the most. Save the cockerel that looks best to you at 16 to 18 weeks for breeding. You have to keep records in any breeding program. In just a few generations you should see improvement if you are careful in selecting your breeders.

Most good egg-laying chickens are smaller. If you introduce their genetics your size will almost certainly drop. And you might introduce other genetics you don't want. As an example I don't know how often those Slow Whites go broody, I'd suspect not often. If you introduce genetics form a hen that goes broody, you may fine a lot of your hens go broody. So be a bit careful which breeds you introduce.

The more characteristics you try to breed for the harder it gets to select your breeders. The more chicks you hatch the more you have to select from. Selective breeding is powerful but you have to put some effort into it.

 

[RiverOtter]

@Redneckracing14, if it helps, I've been pretty happy with my Buff Cornish from Ideal. They are nice, solid, breasty birds, if nowhere near as big as CX, or even show-line Cornish. Overall, they lay an ok amount of eggs and I consider them a nice dual-purpose breed as is, although they could use improvement in any direction you wanted to take them. They breed just fine, go broody regularly and do an ok job foraging, but do not escape from predators. I have a couple crossed with Leghorn, which, while lighter, lay more and bigger eggs and are still nicely solid through the breast. I don't know what continuing that cross would bring, but it's something to play with.

I also have a couple sired on the Cornish hens by a Buff Orp rooster and they are nothing worth writing about - it didn't improve the Orps and definitely degraded the Cornish.

Honestly, I think selectively breeding these would give you what you want, without the wild results of crossbreeding where everything starts throwing back to a grandparent the 3rd and 4th generations.

 

[Redneckracing14]

Thanks for the replys yes I orderd 25 strait run slow growing broilers then I can chose and pick which ones I want to keep at 18 weeks and butcher the rest maybe I will try to hatch a few of those to see what I get grain cheap hear and my animals can free range I get 75 pounds broiler feed for 10 dollars.. think i will sell my leghorns n fir rooster and start to look for a nice cornish male and female and breed them to these and eventually introduce a leghorn may skimp some on the size but will keep the eggs flowing

 

[Redneckracing14]

Back in the mid-1900's, before the Cornish X took over the commercial chicken meat business Delaware, New Hampshire, and certain strains of White Rock were the primary breeds used for commercial meat in the US. Hatcheries specialized in breeding them for meat. Several years back someone on this forum had a link to an advertisement from the 1930's saying their Delaware chicks could grow to 4 pounds at 10 weeks. At the time that was something to brag about. But hatcheries stopped breeding anything for meat except the Cornish X about 70 years ago. Each hatchery is different but as far as I am concerned today's hatchery Delaware, New Hampshire, and White Rock are not really different than any other dual purpose breed.

Individual breeders instead of hatcheries may be a much better place to look if you want breeding stock. If you look at the SOP for Delaware the target weight for a grown rooster is 8-1/2 pounds. I believe the New Hampshire SOP weight is similar. I doubt very many hatchery Delaware or New Hampshire roosters hit these weights. Even the SOP ones are generally on a special feeding program.

I looked at Welp's White Broilers, not sure what is going on with them. They are not Cornish X but the weights given appear heavier than the 1930's meat birds. I suspect someone has invested some time and effort in breeding them. They are only sold straight run.

My first suggestion since you've identified these would be to get some and raise them. See what you think of them, they may suit you as is. Hatch eggs from the hens that lay the most. Save the cockerel that looks best to you at 16 to 18 weeks for breeding. You have to keep records in any breeding program. In just a few generations you should see improvement if you are careful in selecting your breeders.

Most good egg-laying chickens are smaller. If you introduce their genetics your size will almost certainly drop. And you might introduce other genetics you don't want. As an example I don't know how often those Slow Whites go broody, I'd suspect not often. If you introduce genetics form a hen that goes broody, you may fine a lot of your hens go broody. So be a bit careful which breeds you introduce.

The more characteristics you try to breed for the harder it gets to select your breeders. The more chicks you hatch the more you have to select from. Selective breeding is powerful but you have to put some effort into it.

When I order these strait from the hatchery and I breed them I wont be inbreeding these will I are they brothers and sisters?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not very likely siblings but more like cousins, probably relatively distant cousins. Every breed of chicken and grand champion show chickens were developed by inbreeding, often parent to offspring. I imagine so were these Slow Whites. But once the breeder gets what he wants developed they then switch to a mode to maintain genetic diversity.

Many breeders use the spiral breeding technique to maintain genetic diversity, a good breeder can go a really long time this way. Hatcheries often use the pen breeding method, that's where they may have 20 roosters in a pen with 200 hens. The randomness of the breeding keeps them from getting too inbred. Some hatcheries have gone decades with this method. That's probably what's happening with these Slow Whites.

With what I suspect will be your limited breeding flock you can probably go five or so generations before you run into problems. That's the basic model used by small farmers for thousands of years. They keep their own replacement roosters and hens from their own flocks for several generations but eventually bring in a new rooster to reinvigorate them with genetic diversity. Often they only have one rooster with the flock at any one time so a fair amount of inbreeding yet it usually takes several generations for problems to show.

 

[Redneckracing14]

Ok thank you that clears that question up so I will be able to hatch right from these for least few generations thanks

 

[Hidrainja4]

I got it, your looking more for roaster size chicken 5-7 lbs dressed weight not broiler 2 1/2 to 4 4 1/2 weight. You must be hungry.
Are you freeranging? Because a white bird really is a target for predators but preferred for processing. Trying to get a picture of your goals.