Crele Cochin color question

[ameraucanacrazy]

I have been working on crele bantam Cochins in frizzles and regular and I have the males color down it is really good but I and having a little problem with some of the females coloring only in the smooth feathered some are great but some are just a barred color instead of crele. What can I do to inprove the color on the females.

 

[Kev]

Do your crele roos have a duckwing? If they're crowwings, then they are not creles but barred gold birchens or barred "leaky blacks"(same thing that happens in black sex link crosses- get color leaking on body if you cross a solid black with a colored chicken). Suspect this is the case as barred hens are described..

It's extremely common practice for any barred bird showing any color other than black/white to get slapped with the name 'crele'. However, true creles are always barring over a red duckwing.

To get true creles, you would need red duckwings, partridges can be 'passable' because the roosters will have the duckwing patch. Wheatens can work- roosters will look very similar to true creles however the hens will be very different from true crele hens.

 

[ameraucanacrazy]

The males have ducklings on them it is just I have two hens out of my 9 that are barred with just a little gold on them. But I do not have any problems with the crele frizzle hens.

 

[DANNY]

Got any pictures?

 

[ameraucanacrazy]

these are of the two hens \\

and here is the rooster sorry i couldn't get a better picture

 

[PhoenixFeatherFarms]

Heres the crele cochin thread

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=408505&p=1

 

[Kev]

Don't see a duckwing and all of them are likely 'leaky blacks'. A black chicken with color leaking on the hackles and frequently on the saddles on roosters also.

They are not crele because none of them are red duckwing. The name crele has a massive misuse problem same as calling EE Araucanas or Ameraucanas. It's pretty bad that just like some people stubbornly calling their EE an Araucana, so it is with people with calling birds like these crele.

Those are true crele from cackle website:

Crele rooster

Hen

Chicks (notice yours hatch out black with white head spot, same as any barred rock chick.. that's black chicken with barring)

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Skimmed through that thread.. it's running in the same problem with calling any barred bird showing color "crele". I see Chris09 tried to inform as for true crele genetics. The birds in your OP definitely are not creles. Cool looking but not crele. Would you accept a Light Brahma being called a "white chicken"? If not, why not.... they are mostly white anyways. Same concept. It seems you may really like the brown red pattern plus barring, why not call them barred brown reds?

sweat is getting close to true crele color. Partridge is the next best base for crele look likes.

 

[Chris09]

There are two thing that you need to create a Crele Pattern Fowl Black Breasted Red and Barring.

Lets look at the difference between Duck-wing and Crow-wing.
Duck-wing has a Wing Bay
Crow-wing has the absent of of a Wing Bay
Number 15 shows the Wing Bay.

A example of a Duck-wing pattern would be a Black Breasted Red (picture from bantychicken.com Not My Bird)

A example of a Crow-wing pattern wound be a Brown Red (picture from bantychicken.com Not My Bird)

Note that both birds have a Wing Bow but only the Black Breasted Red has a Wing Bay.

Other than Black Breasted Red (Duck-Wing) patterned bird you need a Barred pattern bird (not cuckoo pattern). Barred birds as in the Barred Rock or a Barred Old English carry the (K) gene that slows feather growth and gives you the clean Barring that you need for the other half of creating a Crele Fowl.

Crele (picture from bantychicken.com Not My Bird)

Below information from the book Old English Game Bantams as Bred and Shown in the United States. (

1995)

Catlin (1991) describes how he made his own strain of Creles by crossing two Crele males with two unrelated Black Breasted Red females. From the mating all the sons were dark
(intermediate) Creles and all the daughters pure Creles. By crossing first generation males and females he extracted some pure Crele males to go with the pure Crele females already obtained.
Wolf (1991):

SIRE.....................DAM..................SONS.............................................DAUGHTERS
Crele....................Crele............100% Crele.......................................100% Crele
Crele....................B.B. Red......100% Intermediate...........................100% Crele
Intermediate.......Crele...........50% Crele & 50% Intermediate.........50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
Intermediate.......B.B. Red......50% Intermediate & 50% B.B. Red....50% Crele & 50% B.B. Red
B.B. Red..............Crele............100% Intermediate...........................100% B.B. Red

Intermediate
In genetic term an "intermediate" male is heterozygous for barring (Bb). Females carry but one sex chromosome so a B- female would be called hemizygous; a BB (Black Breasted) male would be homozygous for barring.


Chris

 

[ameraucanacrazy]

Okay thank you for explaining that to me