cross breeding

[chickensioux]

Quote:
I for one would love to see a photo, if you happen to have any handy

Thanks,

Pat

This is Victor the offspring from The Old Rebel's turkeys. He's awesome!!!

 

[patandchickens]

Oh, now that is purty!!

I am trying to decide, now that I have been bit by the turkey bug and would like to keep a small (small!) breeding group for fun and to produce some for the table, whether I should stick with one particular breed or get a couple different colors and go for the "random multicolor" flock, still selecting for health and temperament and suitability for the table.

As I just do not have room/funds for a proper breeding programme for turkeys, I am getting increasingly tempted to try the little bit o this little bit o that random multicolor flock thing... and your pic certainly does nothing to discourage me from it

Pat

 

[My Little Sister's Farm]

Is it really called "crossbreeding" when there is only one breed? I think it's just diluting the genetics of a variety. I'll take the tom 2 post above mine over a "pure" most colors any day, he's fantastic!!!

 

[patandchickens]

Well, it is "crossing" certainly

I do not pretend to have the first clue why the APA or whomever has decided to treat all turkeys as a single breed with just color varieties, but it is a pretty arbitrary terminology decision it seems to me.

So why should they *not* be referred to in conversation as "breeds" if it rolls off the tongue easier?

In which case why not "crossbreeding" as well

JMHO, and I don't really think it matters what we CALL it since we all know what's being referred to,

Pat

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Pat,
They are labled that way because the breed is turkeys. All the color varietes come from the same breed. ie Orpingtons come Buff, Black, White and are recognized by the APA - Breed Orpington - variety the color. All turkeys recognized by the APA are just that, turkeys and then broken down by color variety. I for one don't think the varieties should be mixed but what you do in your yard is up to you and if you sell eggs or poults you need to mention that. Kevin Porter has some very interesting color combos but they can't be considered "heritage" as they don't breed true.

Steve in NC

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Any color turkey will try to breed any color turkey. The "won't breed" may be referring to Broadbreasts, which are bred to be SO huge but also as a result they cannot breed very well(if at all).

If your Bronze is a "heritage type" and not a Broadbreasted, he will be able to breed the bourbon red hen.

However.. if he IS a Broadbreasted, he will likely to have a lot of trouble or really tear up the hen in attempt to breed her. Just way too big and heavy.

A Bourbon red tom can breed a Broadbreasted hen though.....

 

[the Old Rebel]

Well, I learn something every day. I don't show my birds, although I have some beautiful ones, so I had no idea the different colors weren't considered different breeds. What makes an Orpington chicken a different breed from, say, a Rhode Island Red??

Anyway, my heritage bronzes are truly heritage bronzes and breed true. But for fun I "crossed" my tom with a bourbon red hen just to see what we would get. I am assuming that won't keep him from breeding true with his wife, the heritage bronze hen. At least it hasn't seemed to so far.

Then, for fun, we bred the offspring back to, honestly, a wild turkey tom that had come up on the property, and a brood that included Obnoxious was the result.

We are a tiny farm..... just having fun. We don't want to mess up the pure strains. Anyone that takes one of mine promises to use them for pets or breeding stock only. They know the lineage. I don't try to deceive anyone about anything.

So, thanks for the info. I'll try to change my terminology, so we all speak the same language, but I'm older, so it might take a little time. Please bear with those of us that are just having fun and not in "the business" officially. Thanks.

The above was NOT intended to aggravate or irritate anyone. It was the truth, spoken from my heart.

Hope y'all have a GREAT DAY!!!!!

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
But that's just circular. Why should all turkeys necessarily be called one breed, when chickens are divided into a bunch of breeds?

It seems to me that, say, a midget white is about as different from a BBB as (say) a leghorn is from a RIR.

There is no objective hard-and-fast criterion for where to draw the lines between breeds vs varieties -- it is just personal taste and fashion and history and such. Which is why I say it is pretty arbitrary to call different turkeys "varieties of one breed" while different chickens are "different breeds, many having multiple varieties".

I for one don't think the varieties should be mixed but what you do in your yard is up to you and if you sell eggs or poults you need to mention that.

Thanks for such a high opinion of my honesty

I can't think why I would ever sell eggs or poults but if I did, of COURSE I would be clear whether it was from a cross or not, sheez.

In general I am in favor of keeping breeds or varieties or whatever you wanna call 'em separate and "well tended", with continual good selection to keep things to the breed/variety standard. As witness, I am keeping only one main breed of chickens (plus a pen of the kids' birds) and the idea, although incubator problems got in the way this year, is to keep 2-3 separate pens and hatch at least 2-3 dozen chicks a year to select from, with most of the culls going into the freezer. This is not for showing, this is just to have a population of nice useful sussexes.

HOWEVER, you can't do this with like just keeping 3-4 birds over winter and only producing maybe 5-10 offspring per year. It is just not realistic to expect to keep up breed/variety quality that way. And that is really all the turkeys that I could ever envision us having. Thus, whatever turkeys I own are going to be "lost" to their breed/variety gene pool ANYHOW, as I am not in a position to properly tend a breed. In which case I cannot see any difference whatsoever how "pure" or not-pure I keep the line.

JMHO,

Pat​

 

[My Little Sister's Farm]

What a great thread to read. I hope I didn't stir anything up with my question. I really was sincere. And now that I think about the difference between breeding for BB's, APA show standars, and to best maintain the unique heritage varieties, it makes more sense. I think it's important that someone is breeding heritage in large numbers and being selective.

Wish it could be me, but I don't think hubby would ever allow me to have a "herd or turks" as he says, for breeding. I had lavenders for a while, they were fun, but really weak as juvies so when we sent the first clutch off to freezer camp we called it quits and sold the parents.