Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[Solanacae]

I used 2 inch wide velcro wrap tape from ebay and cut it 7 inch long and cut it again down the middle into one inch strips for young roosters. I put it on snug and let them get used to it before I make the adjustment. I had two Breese roosters from a specific farm die from wearing them, this line cannot wear no crow collars, their neck is too thick. I have another Breese line that can wear them tight with no problems. I make it so I can hardly hear them crowing in the morning.

I mark the black velcro with white out on each adjustment, so I know where the sweet spot is. A 1/8 move up or down changes the sound and pitch when you are in the sweet spot.

Thanks! I appreciate the information.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I got ten eggs today! And sold a bunch of eggs to some friends.

I didn't weigh the first dozen and there has been two broken that I fed the pig. But the rest of them were... weights in grams, giant eggs in bold...
52, 48, 45, 49, 51,55, 48, 49, 45, 43, 48, 51
32, 54, 45, 51, 53, 47, 50, 48, 49, 49, 47, 48
71, 72, 50, 50, 52, 52, 51, 51, 52, 53, 49, 55
74, 50, 56, 53, 53, 52, 48, 51, 54, 44, 52, 49
47, 53, 56, 52, 45, 50, 52, 56, 56, 52, 54, 48
86, 78, 47, 52, 48, 52, 58, 54, 47, 54, 51, 57

Smallest 44, largest 86!

The Chickshaw is sooo close to being done! I need to adjust the nests, put on the wheels, and put on the siding. Got a cheap wheelchair at the restore and took the wheels off. I had to get a different size rod for the axle to fit them, picked up today, so that will be done tomorrow. And finishing the nests.
I was going to use some aluminum siding (used) that I have here and Dad actually bought some white roofing at the restore also! So that should be done soon, he has to go back to pick it up in the truck. I think the chickens are going to be so much happier in there! And with the nest alteration it is 5 nests for 26 pullets so should be good. And no more egg searching! //swoons//

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Sad to report the pullets are taking damage from the cockerels. I had put most into a cage by the rabbits, well away from the rest. But I hate to put any more in there, it's a pain to have them there. Today I moved three more to the cage. Leaving 2 FR, 1 buff, 2 columbian, and the two keepers bielefelder and NH. Some of the hens show no damage and some show a fair bit so assuming those are the ones laying.
I'll be catching the rest tomorrow to put in the cage and decide how to deal with them. Probably butcher a couple of the smallest myself. It's much better to do it with dad's help, it's so much more efficient that way. But gotta be done. The FR in one hand felt as heavy or heavier than the sussex and delaware in the other hand.

I will also be figuring out if I can get enough together to make a cockerel pen. Then I can put the 2 keepers in there and give the pullets a full break from their shenanigans for a while. Today I only got 4 eggs and one was a little 19gram first egg. Probably because of the heavy breeding action.
I drew up a design that could double for maybe a quad and have two sides. Have to see if I have enough wood around to build it.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I wrote up a chart of: up to 10 days egg collection, set eggs, hatch day, brooder 6wks, 21wks estimated cockerel fertile, 23wks estimated pullet laying. The idea being that I'd set eggs a few days after each hatch and as it goes there would be keeper pullets coming into lay every month. I'm assuming that there will be from like Nov-Feb that the pullets coming to age won't start laying until like March with longer days?

I'm thinking to start in Feb, pending that I could collect eggs and that they aren't freezing. That would start hatching the beginning of March. I know previously I said I wanted to start hatching as soon as possible but the FR seem really healthy, actually the only thing right now is the over breeding. By pushing it off it gives me time to build the brooder and get more things together. If any FR have health issues pop up then they can be culled and I'd rather have offspring from the healthier ones anyhow. I may also make further decisions of the pullets on who will not be part of the breeding project.

I need to evaluate the FR hens individually. If I can get the cockerel pens built that would also let me move them in there for a while to see how many eggs they are actually laying. Then I could pick the best of them to breed from. If they are not laying alot I will probably hatch from all of their eggs just to get going. I think they are the main layers right now though, we'll see.
I could put 4 FR in each side of the breeding pen with the cockerels and mark the eggs from them. After the first or second hatch I think I'd see if there was one that did notably better and be able to breed them to just that one.

I bought a farmers innovator 2250 a while back. With the turner it does 41 eggs. I didn't buy the turner. I'm estimating I could fit about 58 eggs comfortably, possibly some more. I just laid out eggs on a paper and calculated the paper size versus the incubator space. The eggs so far have been kinda dirty from egg hunting and I didn't want to put them in the nice new incubator. We'll see.
So just for an idea let's say 58 eggs in, 75% hatch rate, gives about 44 chicks per hatch. If I wanted to keep going back to back like that I could get 15 hatches in a year. For an estimated 660 chicks total. Choosing the top 10% for progressing would be 66 per year, about 4 or 5 per hatch. The rest going to the freezer and sales.

I don't want to make a big order of chicks again so I'm considering asking at the Rural King when they do special orders for chicks. They have chicks basically all the warm months, still have them now. I don't know what hatchery they get from if I could get a small bunch of cornish (dark, not Cx) to see how they are and if they'd be worth doing some breeding from.
If I did order chicks it would be dark cornish (Mx15) from mcmurray, and henry noll line NH (SRx15) from freedom ranger hatchery. Each order costing $55-60. These are the ones I think could add to my project. I've nixed the other candidates from my interest for various reasons.
Plus I have the rest of the pullets I can hatch from for variety. I don't really think they have alot to bring to the meaty breeding. They'd have to be bred to a NH from the henry noll line to bring in growth. Who knows maybe I'll hatch from them to see what happens. But I think the FR hens are my main birds for this.

I can't say I'm not darn tempted to hatch some just because! It looks like every egg I've used so far has been fertile. It's veryyyy tempting... But too much going on right now and I don't have a brooder set up. Brooding like I did this spring is not an option. It's too big a mess inside and I really don't have the space for it anyways.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I filled in my chart with 2wk, 4wk, 6wk dates. With my design it should give me:
6x6 for hatch-2wk (max 90, 0.4sq ft)
6x6 for 2-4wk (max 72, 0.5sq ft)
6x12 for 4-6wk (max 72, 1sq ft)

I also found a video and some stuff on wing bands. It seems much easier than changing out leg bands! Strombergs has red, blue, green, and yellow. They are 100 packs and numbered. I think they will work so much better than the leg bands, I will probably only need some leg bands for ones that I might need to check on or be able to pick out by sight. And it will give the bird a number and color for me to keep records by.

 

[Solanacae]

I’ve heard of people putting lipstick in their hen’s vents to identify which ones are laying what eggs. Seems to be a bit time consuming, since I don’t know how often you’d have to catch a chicken to reapply her lipstick, but it may be helpful where you have multiples of each breed, which will have similarly colored eggs.

 

[NatJ]

The idea being that I'd set eggs a few days after each hatch and as it goes there would be keeper pullets coming into lay every month....If I wanted to keep going back to back like that I could get 15 hatches in a year.

If you wanted to hatch as many eggs as possible, you could have a second incubator that is just used for hatching. That way each week you clean the hatcher, move the next set of eggs from the incubator to the hatcher, and set a new batch in the main incubator. Having it happen on the same day each week can make a convenient cycle.

I'm assuming that there will be from like Nov-Feb that the pullets coming to age won't start laying until like March with longer days?

Maybe, maybe not. I've had pullets that started during those months, and pullets that waited for spring, so it could go either way. With mine, it seemed to depend on the breed (I had different breeds than you), with some individual variation within each breed too.

I'm considering asking at the Rural King when they do special orders for chicks.

I've seen plenty of stories of store that mis-labeled chicks. Special ordering would probably be more accurate than just picking from their bins, but I suggest you learn what the breeds are supposed to look like as chicks, so you can at least watch out for obvious mixups.

I could get a small bunch of cornish (dark, not Cx) to see how they are and if they'd be worth doing some breeding from.

Dark Cornish, or White Laced Red Cornish, will tend to be meaty but slow growing. They also look small compared to many other chicken breeds of the same weight, because their feathers are less fluffy & loose than many other breeds. Definitely use a scale when comparing, because they can fool you otherwise.

If you want to try pure Cornish, you might try some of each color. It is very common for different colors to perform a bit differently, because they are treated as separate breeding groups and not allowed to mix.

The Dark Cornish are red/brown with black double lacing. The White Laced Red are red with white single lacing. Both kinds of lacing will produce birds of various patterns if you cross them with other breeds. The white lacing is caused by the Dominant White gene, which turns all black on the chicken into white-- if you cross them with other breeds, you will see white patterns and markings in the first generation, and some black reappearing in the second generation.

I can't say I'm not darn tempted to hatch some just because! It looks like every egg I've used so far has been fertile. It's veryyyy tempting... But too much going on right now and I don't have a brooder set up. Brooding like I did this spring is not an option. It's too big a mess inside and I really don't have the space for it anyways.

Sounds tempting, but I agree that it's better to wait until you have the better brooder setup. Raising chicks is MUCH easier when things are properly designed!

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I’ve heard of people putting lipstick in their hen’s vents to identify which ones are laying what eggs. Seems to be a bit time consuming, since I don’t know how often you’d have to catch a chicken to reapply her lipstick, but it may be helpful where you have multiples of each breed, which will have similarly colored eggs.

lipstick?! That's a new one to me. I've heard food coloring. Which I am considering doing. I don't have lipstick or food coloring so I'd have to buy it either way hahaha.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

If you wanted to hatch as many eggs as possible, you could have a second incubator that is just used for hatching. That way each week you clean the hatcher, move the next set of eggs from the incubator to the hatcher, and set a new batch in the main incubator. Having it happen on the same day each week can make a convenient cycle.

I'm considering this too. Right now I just have the one incubator. I have a list of things to build a cabinet incubator, it would just be setting aside the money for it. Then I could hatch in this one and rotate batches through the cabinet.

Maybe, maybe not. I've had pullets that started during those months, and pullets that waited for spring, so it could go either way. With mine, it seemed to depend on the breed (I had different breeds than you), with some individual variation within each breed too.

Makes sense.

I've seen plenty of stories of store that mis-labeled chicks. Special ordering would probably be more accurate than just picking from their bins, but I suggest you learn what the breeds are supposed to look like as chicks, so you can at least watch out for obvious mixups.

Yeah I used to work at the one I'd be going to so I'm quite familiar with all the shenanigans that can happen. Good idea though to make sure.

Dark Cornish, or White Laced Red Cornish, will tend to be meaty but slow growing. They also look small compared to many other chicken breeds of the same weight, because their feathers are less fluffy & loose than many other breeds. Definitely use a scale when comparing, because they can fool you otherwise.

If you want to try pure Cornish, you might try some of each color. It is very common for different colors to perform a bit differently, because they are treated as separate breeding groups and not allowed to mix.

The Dark Cornish are red/brown with black double lacing. The White Laced Red are red with white single lacing. Both kinds of lacing will produce birds of various patterns if you cross them with other breeds. The white lacing is caused by the Dominant White gene, which turns all black on the chicken into white-- if you cross them with other breeds, you will see white patterns and markings in the first generation, and some black reappearing in the second generation.

I'm interested in the breast meat qualities. This would be like a side experiment to test if they help get to my goals. The late maturity is something I considered. Right now I'm thinking if I can get the traits I want and end up with a late maturing bird then that may just be the trade off. We'll see.
I will be taking weights of them. Using weights and hands on to feel the meat distribution. Yeah good point on the difference in feathers, they will look quite different to the rest of the birds.

Sounds tempting, but I agree that it's better to wait until you have the better brooder setup. Raising chicks is MUCH easier when things are properly designed!

Yes, now it's just a matter of my patience...

 

[Solanacae]

lipstick?! That's a new one to me. I've heard food coloring. Which I am considering doing. I don't have lipstick or food coloring so I'd have to buy it either way hahaha.

Same here, not a lipstick wearer at all. Can you imagine the conversation with the cashier at the store?
“That’s a lot of lipstick you have there.”
“Oh, it’s not for me, it’s for my chickens”
“ . . . . . “

My husband plays trumpet and got a small sink plunger for some of the jazz pieces he was playing. (You can buy fancy ones for 10x the price at music stores, but they sound exactly the same, so what’s the point?) Anyway, the cashier noticed that he didn’t have the handle and pointed it out. My husband told her that he didn’t need the handle, he just used his hands. (Cue weird look from cashier) Very much enjoying making it awkward, he said it was for his trumpet, leaving the cashier thinking that something disgusting was stuck in the trumpet!