Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[Ascholten]

Thank you VERY much for the detailed response.

One other quick question. You say you butcher them around 8 to 16 weeks ... ish.
If they are cockerels, are they crowing already? Maybe a better question, about what age Do roosters start crowing? Can you kill them before they get to that stage and they have decent meat on them by that time. My concern is, roosters will get me in trouble with the neigbors, so if I am going to raise feed chickens, I need to stew pot them before they get into the crowing thing.

FWIW my friend has a farm with a lot of chickens so I can get a steady stream of chicks from him, so NO there won't be a fertile rooster at my place. I can borrow one for a day or so to knock up my girls, and then do that egg thing as well... or bring the girls to his place and let him have his way with them. (the rooster NOT my friend, although we ARE in the south We can work something out w/o a rooster taking permanent residence here.

Aaron

 

[NatJ]

You say you butcher them around 8 to 16 weeks ... ish.
If they are cockerels, are they crowing already? Maybe a better question, about what age Do roosters start crowing? Can you kill them before they get to that stage and they have decent meat on them by that time.

It depends on the cockerel, but I have certainly heard some crow before 8 weeks of age. Some of them were pretty scrawny (bantams or light breeds), but I'm pretty sure I've had some dual purpose ones crow by that age too.

By 16 weeks, I would expect to hear LOTS of crowing.

Sometimes the butchering date is decided by how much they are crowing, rather than by how much meat they have!

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Mine are 10wks and I haven't heard crowing attempts yet. And there are definitely 12 FR cockerels plus unknown more of the others. It would actually help me sex the others if they would crow but from my reading here there's definitely variation in that.

 

[Ascholten]

Mine are 10wks and I haven't heard crowing attempts yet. And there are definitely 12 FR cockerels plus unknown more of the others. It would actually help me sex the others if they would crow but from my reading here there's definitely variation in that.

Is that variation by bird to some extent or pretty much by species / mix ? In other words, if I had a dozen of XX breed, should I expect them all to pretty much start crowing at the same time or is there going to be a several week span when each one will start?

Thanks
Aaron

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Is that variation by bird to some extent or pretty much by species / mix ? In other words, if I had a dozen of XX breed, should I expect them all to pretty much start crowing at the same time or is there going to be a several week span when each one will start?

Thanks
Aaron

Like start of lay - chickens don't keep calendars. Its more like a strong suggestion with a range of weeks, rather than a hard and fast date.

Mostly I watch feather development, combs and wattles. They don't require waiting on a communicative moment. That helps identify the boys, and if I need one for table, I'll take one of the thus identified. If, OTOH, they confirm that identification by behavior - chasing and mounting the hens - i rearrange the menu (or the freezer) to accommodate. There's enough variables in my breeding program without multiple Roos being involved, thanks!

 

[NatJ]

Is that variation by bird to some extent or pretty much by species / mix ? In other words, if I had a dozen of XX breed, should I expect them all to pretty much start crowing at the same time or is there going to be a several week span when each one will start?

It's both, by breed and by individual.

There can be weeks between one cockerel and another of the same breed, and days or weeks or even months between one breed and another.

In general, the ones that grow quickly (= good for meat) and start laying early will also tend to crow early. The ones that crow late usually grow more slowly too, and start laying later.

 

[Ascholten]

ok, so each is their own entity on crowing. I'll have to put a decimeter next to the scale and butcher knife, when either one tips to a certain level, dinner time.
TY for the replies.

Aaron

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is that variation by bird to some extent or pretty much by species / mix ?

I find that the differences in individuals is a much stronger factor in behaviors than breed. The differences between a Delaware and Sussex if often less than the differences between two Delaware.

In other words, if I had a dozen of XX breed, should I expect them all to pretty much start crowing at the same time or is there going to be a several week span when each one will start?

Another complicating factor is dominance. A dominant cockerel or rooster will often suppress the actions of the less dominant ones. This could include crowing, mating, tid-bitting the girls, or fighting between the less dominant males. I'll use weasel words such as "often" or "could" or "pretty normal" because you don't get guarantees with living animals and their behaviors. I've seen plenty of exceptions to all of these. Each chicken is an individual and each flock has its own dynamics.

I raise several cockerels together. It is pretty normal that the top one or two crow and the others don't. If you remove the top one or two, some others start. If you have a dominant rooster in the flock the cockerels often don't crow.

Out in the country somebody about a half mile away also has a flock of chickens. Their rooster and mine will sometimes get into crowing contests, I think they are warning each other that "this is my territory, stay away".

Crowing is not a factor for me. Some people on here that aren't allowed to have a rooster (or maybe even chickens at all) say they butcher at 12 weeks to try to stop a cockerel giving them away by crowing. That doesn't always work but it usually does. If you raise Cornish X or Rangers they will have a fair amount of meat by 12 weeks. A dual purpose cockerel will have very little meat but it's still tender enough to fry or grill.

 

[Ascholten]

Ty again for the info. Yah, roosters, The farm down the road a little bit has 5 that I know of, they start about 2 am, then ALL of them start, and they go, and go, and go.... and go

Often folks are doing the Backyard Chicken thing, live in areas with an HOA and Roosters are forbidden, which is kind of my case, which is why I am trying to figure out if it's worth it to try to raise some meat birds. The more I read, the more it sounds like I should talk to my friend and see to it that I get pullets if I can help it. THe Roos are just too much of an issue it might appear.

Are there any decent meat birds that you can pretty much tell the sex at birth or very shortly after?

Aaron

 

[NatJ]

Are there any decent meat birds that you can pretty much tell the sex at birth or very shortly after?

If you want to buy them, you can get female Cornish Cross from some sources (I know McMurray Hatchery sells them.)

Or you buy Sexlinks. They are bred to mature early, so whatever amount of meat they will get, happens fairly quickly.

FWIW my friend has a farm with a lot of chickens so I can get a steady stream of chicks from him, so NO there won't be a fertile rooster at my place. I can borrow one for a day or so to knock up my girls, and then do that egg thing as well... or bring the girls to his place and let him have his way with them.

Certain combinations of rooster/hen can produce sexlinked chicks. So you could produce dual-purpose type sexlinks, if you have the right hens and your friend has an appropriate rooster.

If the rooster has a pattern of gold & black (or red & black) with no white barring, you could have hens with barring (like Barred Rocks or Dominiques or Bielefelders) and silver hens (Silver Laced or Silver Penciled or Silver Columbian or Silver Spangled) and get sexlinks from all the crosses. Delawares are both silver AND barred, so they work both ways. You would sort the sexes like this: yellow/silver chicks are male, chicks with dots on the head are male (will grow up barred), chicks that are brown/red/gold/black with no dot are female (not silver, not barred = female).

For all of those sexlink crosses, you can tell by looking at the adult chicken if it has the right genes. This works because the male must have the recessive genes (only show if he has two copies, on his two Z chromosomes) and the female must have the domiant gene (because she only has one Z chromosome, she cannot possibly have the recessive gene too.)

Because you can tell by looking at the adults, you can pick from a batch of Easter Eggers or Freedom Rangers or any other chickens you like, without having to know anything about their ancestors.