Crossing a Black Sex link Rooseter and Cuckoo Maran

[lhines08]

We have a black sex link roo and cuckoo maran hens. May have been an egg to from our delewere or golden orpentin Some of them have spots on top of there head. Does this have anything to do with sexing ? I was thinking maybe it was more because they are "mixed" and just have different coloring

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Your Black Sex Link roo will almost certainly have only 1 barring gene as he is a hybrid (Barred Rock hen with often a RIR roo).

You have a Cuckoo Marans hen with 1 barring gene influenced by her rapid feather growth which makes the bars diffuse or "cuckoo"

That means between these two the following will be possible:
25% doubled barred males (black with larger head dot for barring to come...not sure if cuckoo or barred, probably barred as I *think* the faster feather will go to the girls only.

25% single barred males
25% single barred females (likely cuckoo as I *think* the faster barring goes to the girls in this cross)

25% no barring solid black females

As to the BSL roo over your Orpington:
50% barred boys and girls
50% unbarred black down boys and girls, likely some buff leakage

As to your BSL roo over your Delaware (which if I remember correctly is silver based not dominant white)
50% barred boys and girls
50% unbarred black down boys and girls
I think the columbian of the Delaware may show through in the unbarred ones, as Columbian is a diffused barring gene at hackles and tail, but will be hidden with the full barred ones....a little shakier on my Columbian genetics.

My guesses
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Nope...just checked fast feathering and it is attached to the K locus on the Z chromosome, which means to you...your fast feathering cuckoo will show up in the double barred males (who receive the Z from mom) and the single barred males (who receive the Z from mom), if I quickly computed that right.

So you should be able to sex your single barred chicks from this mating by day one or two from primary feather growth.
LofMc

 

[Ridgerunner]

We have a black sex link roo and cuckoo maran hens. May have been an egg to from our delewere or golden orpentin Some of them have spots on top of there head. Does this have anything to do with sexing ?

No. By definition your Black Sex Link rooster is split for the barring gene. He has one barred gene and one not-barred gene. He randomly gives those to his offspring so about half of his daughters will be barred, half won't. Half of his son's will be barred half won't. Regardless of which hens he is mated to you cannot tell the sex of the chicks by the spot.

If the hen is also barred some of the boys will have double barring, but some won't. With experience some people can tell the double barring from the single barring. If you can the double barred will be male but the single barred could be a boy or a girl.

After they feather out the double bared boys will be lighter in color than the single barred, but the darker single barred might be a by or a girl. You cannot use a Black Sex Link (BSL) rooster to be able to tell sex by whether they have the spot or not.

I *think* the faster feather will go to the girls only.

Lady, I'm not totally sure I follow you. I believe you are talking about the sex-linked fast and slow feathering genes and how that affects the wing feathers at hatch. For sex-linked feather sexing to work the hen has to have the dominant slow feathering gene. The rooster has to be pure for the recessive fast feathering gene. A cuckoo hen has the recessive fast-feathering gene. She does not meet the requirement for the hen to have the dominant slow-feathering gene.

Since fast or slow feathering is a sex linked gene the hen gives what she has to her sons only. Her daughters get nothing from her. Since the Cuckoo is fast feathering it only goes to her sons. The girls only get what the rooster gives them. In this case we don't know what that is.

I don't have a clue what the BSL rooster has as far as slow or fast feathering. I'm not sure on the Orpington or Delaware hens either. Without knowing the genetic make-up regarding slow of fast feathering of both parents I don't see how you can use sex linked feather sexing to determine sex of the chicks.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

@Ridgerunner
Thank you for the clarification...I wasn't sure if the Cuckooing (which is the barred gene impacted by faster feather growth to make diffuse pattern vs barred) would impact the feathering to sexable.
I've never bred a cuckoo with a barred (either direction).

Do you have answer on how the Columbian on the Delaware would impact...would that impact barring in the solids,, as I understand it, perhaps wrongly, Columbian simply diffuses barring with the silver on the body which is barred (but isn't the tail and hackles flecked with barring?)

Sorry admittedly a bit rusty on my barring genetics.
LofMc

 

[Ridgerunner]

I've never bred a cuckoo with a barred (either direction).

I haven't either. In theory if the male were the cuckoo and the female the barred you should be able to sex them by feather sexing plus the boys should be barred and the girls cuckoo when they feather out. It's always nice to get confirmation by actually doing it and seeing the results.

Do you have answer on how the Columbian on the Delaware would impact...would that impact barring in the solids,, as I understand it, perhaps wrongly, Columbian simply diffuses barring with the silver on the body which is barred (but isn't the tail and hackles flecked with barring?)

I once crossed a Speckled Sussex rooster with a Delaware hen and got a red sex link rooster. You can see the barring on any feather that is not white. Even the creamy colored "silver" saddle feathers showed barring.

I'm no professional but my understanding is that Columbian changes the body feathers that would normally be black to white. That's the columbian pattern, like a Light Sussex. The reason you don't see the barring on the body is that barring doesn't show on white feathers. It's there, you just can't see it.

 

[lhines08]

Do you think our girls are cuckoo maran. They were sold as barred rock but the leg color makes me think maran

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I haven't either. In theory if the male were the cuckoo and the female the barred you should be able to sex them by feather sexing plus the boys should be barred and the girls cuckoo when they feather out. It's always nice to get confirmation by actually doing it and seeing the results.

I once crossed a Speckled Sussex rooster with a Delaware hen and got a red sex link rooster. You can see the barring on any feather that is not white. Even the creamy colored "silver" saddle feathers showed barring.

I'm no professional but my understanding is that Columbian changes the body feathers that would normally be black to white. That's the columbian pattern, like a Light Sussex. The reason you don't see the barring on the body is that barring doesn't show on white feathers. It's there, you just can't see it.

View attachment 2541114

To OP: I stand firm on my barring/cuckoo as to 25% double barred/cuckoo males, 50% single barred/cuckoo male and female (equally), 25% all black females. And yes...some should be straight barring and some cuckoo, following who gets the fast feather growth gene.

But as to my further musty musings...

In refreshing my barring vs cuckooing feather growth...all sites agree the difference between barring and cuckoo is the one has slow and the other fast feather growth...but I can now find sites that list it both ways...the fast feathering is with the Barred Rock for crisp lines, but then I can find another genetic group that says the fast feathering is the Cuckoo.

I do think at least some of the chicks will be fast feather sexable...it would just be knowing which were impacted by who.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Do you think our girls are cuckoo maran. They were sold as barred rock but the leg color makes me think maran

I'm seeing predominately yellow shanks, so Barred Rock as Cuckoo Marans (from the Marans) is whitish-grey shanks (light to darker depending on line). It's always hard for me to tell in photos, but they looked barred to me rather than cuckoo as well.

My thoughts
LofMc

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Do you think our girls are cuckoo maran. They were sold as barred rock but the leg color makes me think maran

They look like barred rocks to me.