Crossing question

[galanie]

Quote:
I had heard, and I don't know if any of this is correct or not, that white orps were made using white rocks. And that the white in white rocks is recessive. As I said, I've no idea if any of this is true or not.

ETA: It might be easier to start with a buff rather than a black.

It was my understanding, that buff is the worst color pattern to try and do anything with.. It's even more complicated, and unsure in terms of breeding on than even white...

I understand that. But I also understand that black is dominate no matter what, unlike white. Buff has lots of crazy stuff in there, even white. But then I don't know if it would be easier or harder. Just throwing it out there.

 

[kfacres]

Quote:
It was my understanding, that buff is the worst color pattern to try and do anything with.. It's even more complicated, and unsure in terms of breeding on than even white...

I understand that. But I also understand that black is dominate no matter what, unlike white. Buff has lots of crazy stuff in there, even white. But then I don't know if it would be easier or harder. Just throwing it out there.

i don't really know.. the color deal is way over my head.. I just remember reading somewhere that if one was to do any kind of color crossing- most people think white is the color to use-- but it stated that black was the best option... to sum it up.. I couldn't tell you why, how, or what.. but I'm guessing it's the most basic color-- simple, dark, and easy to breed around... Even if it's dominate, in one and two generations you can have it bred out of them for good by Selection and culling. Maybe that's why it's the best???

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
It was my understanding, that buff is the worst color pattern to try and do anything with.. It's even more complicated, and unsure in terms of breeding on than even white...

I understand that. But I also understand that black is dominate no matter what, unlike white. Buff has lots of crazy stuff in there, even white. But then I don't know if it would be easier or harder. Just throwing it out there.

Recessive white is epistatic to all the genes that cause color in a bird. That means the bird could have dominant genes for black color but the bird will be white. When you use the words dominant and recessive it usually only refers to two alleles. Birds are normally black because of the extended black gene ( allele) , this gene is dominant to the gene (allele) it is paired with on a chromosome. You can not say that one gene ( extended black) is dominant to another gene like gold. Extended black can only be dominant over the allele it is paired with.

Buff is not that hard of a color to produce if you have the correct genes to work with in your birds.

Buff color can be produced on birds that are wheaten, carry columbian, gold and the dark brown gene. Some birds carry dominant white to get rid of any black in the tail and wings.

The pullet below is like a buff bird but it carries the silver allele. As you can see it has some black in the hackles and in its crest. There are reasons for that and I want the bird to have a black crest. In a few years, I will have what I want in the birds. The bird is a black crested white.

The hardest part in making a buff bird is eliminating the black. She has some black in her tail. If she were gold see would be buff.

Tim

 

[kfacres]

i like the way her wattles look...

 

[galanie]

Quote:
Interesting. And to help me understand what you're saying about the black and white, I played with the chicken calculator on http://www.kippenjungle.nl
Amazing to me that one can have E/E and still be white with the addition of the "recessive" white. Proof I was dead wrong. Easier indeed to use black.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Interesting. And to help me understand what you're saying about the black and white, I played with the chicken calculator on http://www.kippenjungle.nl
Amazing to me that one can have E/E and still be white with the addition of the "recessive" white. Proof I was dead wrong. Easier indeed to use black.

Genetics 101


A gene and its partner gene are called alleles. The recessive white allele (gene) is partnered with the color allele (gene) . The color allele is dominant to the recessive white allele.

The term recessive only refers to the relationship between the recessive white allele and its partner allele called color. The color allele is dominant to the recessive white allele. One dominant color allele will allow a bird to have color. The other genes in a bird determine what color the bird will be. Two recessive white alleles produce a white bird- the is no dominant color allele present to allow for color in a bird.

The term recessive in recessive white does not have anything to do with other genes like extended black, gold or columbian. One gene is not dominant over another gene only alleles have a dominance and recessive relationship.

Recessive white gene is not recessive to the dominant extended black gene. Matter of fact the recessive white gene is epistatic (prevents another gene from working) to the extended black gene.

I think once you understand the above you will see genetics in a different light.

Tim