Cull 2 Aggressive Cockerals to Increase Integration of 6 Pullets into Existing Fock of 10?

[GuppyTJ]

Hi all,

Would culling 2 aggressive cockerals help with integrating my 6 new pullets into an existing flock of 10 chicks? Here's the background.

Two weeks ago, I got 6 8 week old pullets and fenced them in with my existing flock of 10 chicks which were 10 weeks old. The mix of the 10 original chicks is 8 cockerals and 2 pullets (I know, pretty bad luck with that mix, eh?

). The 2 groups lived side by side for a week and then I let them merge together. It's gone pretty well, no blood or pulled out feathers. All my chicks free range completely, with loads of space. The coop is also a good size at 10 x 14 feet so they have lots of space. I have a few feeders and waters and things for the younger chicks to hide behind, etc.

However, there are 2 older RIR's that go out of their way to chase the younger chicks. These 2 RIR's are the only ones that do this. For example, the 2 RIR's were trying to keep the 6 new pullets out of the coop last night. The RIR's like to guard the coop, hanging back from free ranging with the others and just harassing the smaller chicks. The RIR are the largest and oldest of the original 10. One of the RIR was the first to crow, as an example. Because I have 8 cockerals, I'll eventually be culling 6 for the dinner table at about 18-20 weeks and these 2 RIR's will be part of that culling.

So, my question is, would culling these 2 RIR cockerals now at 13 weeks be a good idea? Would it give the new younger 6 pullets more opportunity to be with the rest of the flock and have them not be picked on so much? Or, since they've been together only 2 weeks, am I rushing it and do they just need more time and eventually, the RIRs will stop harassing the new 6? Or if I do cull the 2 RIRs now, will one of the other 6 remaining cockerals take the place of the RIR cockerals and start harassing the younger ones?

I don't have any experience with this so what are your thoughts? What would you do?
Guppy

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

RIR have a reputation of being aggressive roosters. I've had some very good ones, but it sounds as if these two are on the aggressive side. I would personally get them out of the flock and see what happens. It's in the "can't hurt, might help" school of chicken keeping!

On a side note, it sounds as if you do have a way to separate your flocks. I'd pull your table cockerels out and separate them entirely, and put them on high-protein feed until you cull. Then you will have more meat at processing time, and you won't have to cull the aggressive cockerels now and lose their meat.

You can separate all your cockerels from your pullets, as well, since you'll be better able to choose which two you want to keep when they're older. Reintroducing roosters is far easier than reintroducing hens, since they're in a different pecking order.

 

[GuppyTJ]

Walking on Sunshine,

Thanks so much for the suggestions. As it turns out, I only sort of have a way to separate the cockerals from the pullets, but I see why/how I gave the impression that I do. When I said that I had the 2 groups together separated by a fence, that was INSIDE the coop. I kept the new 6 pullets inside the fenced in area inside the coop for a week. Now, they all free range and I have zero fencing outside. I don't have a run or anything like that. So, unless I put the cockerals inside the coop full time for the next several weeks to finish growing and it comes time to cull, I don't have a way to separate them. I like your point about separating out the 2 RIRs that are being aggressive and just see if it helps. I could certainly try this for a few days and see if it helps. I hadn't thought of this so thanks.

I think I know which cockerals I'll keep, but as you say, they have a ways to grow and mature so I could change my mind as start interacting with the pullets.

Thanks again,
Guppy

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Walking on Sunshine,

Thanks so much for the suggestions. As it turns out, I only sort of have a way to separate the cockerals from the pullets, but I see why/how I gave the impression that I do. When I said that I had the 2 groups together separated by a fence, that was INSIDE the coop. I kept the new 6 pullets inside the fenced in area inside the coop for a week. Now, they all free range and I have zero fencing outside. I don't have a run or anything like that. So, unless I put the cockerals inside the coop full time for the next several weeks to finish growing and it comes time to cull, I don't have a way to separate them. I like your point about separating out the 2 RIRs that are being aggressive and just see if it helps. I could certainly try this for a few days and see if it helps. I hadn't thought of this so thanks.

I think I know which cockerals I'll keep, but as you say, they have a ways to grow and mature so I could change my mind as start interacting with the pullets.

Thanks again,
Guppy

Hi Guppy,

Have you thought about a temporary fenced area for the cockerels? We often use a roll of cheap plastic snow fence zip-tied to T-type fence posts. Cheap and effective, and you can put it up in less than an hour.

 

[GuppyTJ]

You have another good thought... I have some old fencing I could use to make the cockerals a temporary run. I believe it's horse fence with the very wide 2" by 2" galvanized mesh. The older cockerals are big enough now that I don't think they can get through the mesh. I think the fencing is about 5 feet tall. It would probably work well enough, even if they flew out occasionally, I could just put them back in. I could also re-partition off the coop but make the space for the cockerals bigger than I had it for the new pullets and just carry them into it at night, then carry them into their fenced area outside.

For the time being, the 2 groups of chicks are getting along a little better. Maybe they're getting used to each other, after 2.5 weeks of living together, 1.5 weeks without a barrier between them. The 2 RIRs are still chasing the new pullets, but not as much. And the new pullets have gradually pushed their way to the top roost, which I take as a good sign that they're starting to find their place in the pecking order. This has been an interesting progression to watch each night. For the first few nights, the new pullets slept on a picnic table bench away from the roost. The next few nights, they tried to sleep on the top rung of the roost but were pushed off so they slept on a rung one lower than the top roost. Then for 2 nights, 3 of the 6 new pullets slept on the top roost and the other 3 slept on the roost 1 rung lower. Then last night, for the first time, all 6 slept on the top roost. The 6 were off on one side of the roost, well away from the others but they were up there. Just fascinating to watch.

Thanks again for the good ideas. Now I have options that I can quickly execute as I need them.

Much thanks,
Guppy

 

[GuppyTJ]

RIR have a reputation of being aggressive roosters. I've had some very good ones, but it sounds as if these two are on the aggressive side. I would personally get them out of the flock and see what happens. It's in the "can't hurt, might help" school of chicken keeping!

On a side note, it sounds as if you do have a way to separate your flocks. I'd pull your table cockerels out and separate them entirely, and put them on high-protein feed until you cull. Then you will have more meat at processing time, and you won't have to cull the aggressive cockerels now and lose their meat.

You can separate all your cockerels from your pullets, as well, since you'll be better able to choose which two you want to keep when they're older. Reintroducing roosters is far easier than reintroducing hens, since they're in a different pecking order.

Hi Walking on Sunshine ("wahoo!" Nice song!),

On your point that "Reintroducing roosters is far easier than reintroducing hens, since they're in a different pecking order", are there specific suggestions for how to do this re-introduction? I ask because today, I processed 2 table cockerals (these 2 aggessive ones in fact) and will continue until I'm down to the 2 keeper cockerals. So, I'm wondering, do most people just let the keeper cockerals out and have them join back up with their pullets?

As an update since we last wrote, did as you suggested and created a bachelor pad for just the 8 cockerals. I have on occasion, been letting the cockerals out, which are now 20 weeks old. One of my 2 cockerals that I intend to keep, who is also the flock master, has mated with one of the pullets on at least 2 occasions. The pullet is 17 weeks old and not willing, so he chases her and when he catches her, grabs hold of her neck feathers. The pullet squats down flat to the ground and he hops on her back for just a brief moment or two, then hops off. He seems to like one of the pullets more than the others. Is this because she's fertile/mature and the others are not yet? He's a juvenile so has not learned how to impress the ladies but has started to do some dancing, tid-biting with food (sometimes, it's real food, sometimes, he's faking it) and was even showing one of the pullets where a good spot is to lay an egg.

So... given this, I think I can simply let the 2 cockerals I'll keep back out to be with the pullets, without any other type of introduction? Is it too early however, given what I've described above? I could do it gradually, letting the keeper cockerals out for part of the day, then put the cockerals back in their bachelor pad at night to go to sleep. Thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help,
Guppy

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Hi Walking on Sunshine ("wahoo!" Nice song!),

On your point that "Reintroducing roosters is far easier than reintroducing hens, since they're in a different pecking order", are there specific suggestions for how to do this re-introduction? I ask because today, I processed 2 table cockerals (these 2 aggessive ones in fact) and will continue until I'm down to the 2 keeper cockerals. So, I'm wondering, do most people just let the keeper cockerals out and have them join back up with their pullets?

As an update since we last wrote, did as you suggested and created a bachelor pad for just the 8 cockerals. I have on occasion, been letting the cockerals out, which are now 20 weeks old. One of my 2 cockerals that I intend to keep, who is also the flock master, has mated with one of the pullets on at least 2 occasions. The pullet is 17 weeks old and not willing, so he chases her and when he catches her, grabs hold of her neck feathers. The pullet squats down flat to the ground and he hops on her back for just a brief moment or two, then hops off. He seems to like one of the pullets more than the others. Is this because she's fertile/mature and the others are not yet? He's a juvenile so has not learned how to impress the ladies but has started to do some dancing, tid-biting with food (sometimes, it's real food, sometimes, he's faking it) and was even showing one of the pullets where a good spot is to lay an egg.

So... given this, I think I can simply let the 2 cockerals I'll keep back out to be with the pullets, without any other type of introduction? Is it too early however, given what I've described above? I could do it gradually, letting the keeper cockerals out for part of the day, then put the cockerals back in their bachelor pad at night to go to sleep. Thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help,
Guppy

Hi, Guppy! Thanks for the heads up PM, I might not have looked here otherwise. It sounds like your bachelor pad worked well; I'm glad.

I would just put your keeper cockerels in with the pullets whenever you feel like it. They are young, and the pullets are young, so there will be some fussing and fighting for a bit, but as long as there is no blood, no foul. The pullets won't feel like being dominated, and the cockerels will feel like they have to show the pullets who's boss, but it will totally work itself out. The cockerels may try to get home to sleep in their own pen for a while--you can stop this by locking them and the pullets in the hen house for a few days before you let them out again.

Your pullet is within a couple of weeks of laying (yay, you!) which is why she is squatting. If she wasn't old enough to be mated, she wouldn't squat. Pullets, even from the same clutch of eggs, mature at different rates. Sounds like this one is the most mature.

The grabbing of the neck feathers is normal behavior. He's young, he's inexperienced... and he's losing his balance.

My older rooster hangs on, too. What you've witnessed sounds like a completely normal mating. The chasing them down is also completely normal, especially for young birds. I like the sound of the dancing, showing treats, etc. Sounds like he'll be good to his ladies.

 

[aldarita]

I am going to jump in the conversation since I am in the same situation as Guppy. I am separating my 8 cockerels in a complete different pen away from the pullets. My cockerels are 13 weeks old and they are OK right now when it comes to confrontations, not too bad at all. With Guppy's help I learned that cockerels start establishing pecking order around 16 weeks, so I guess I can keep them together for 3 more weeks or if they start fighting more often I will separate them earlier.
As I understand it after reading this thread, the time to reintroduce the cockerels back to the pullets is 20 weeks, hopefully my pullets will be mature enough for the cockerels to mate (I am keeping 2 cockerels only) and have 12 pullets and 9 one year and a half hens.
I am guessing that the hens and the cockerels are going to go thru a pecking order process, my darling alpha hen is not going to like to be demoted at all so I can foresee some fighting here.
In your experience, do I just bring the 2 cockerels back to the chicken yard (when time comes and they are 20 weeks old) while the pullets and hens are free ranging and then let them all back in the run/coops area?
My 9 hens have their own coop, the pullets and cockerels have another coop but they share the run.
I wonder if the hens at the top of the pecking order are going to be too mean to the cockerels. At this point I am guessing that the integration with the pullets will not be as bad as the integration with the hens.
Thanks a lot in advance for your help in this matter, this is my first time with roosters and integration.
Guppy, thanks for your help and tips.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

I am going to jump in the conversation since I am in the same situation as Guppy. I am separating my 8 cockerels in a complete different pen away from the pullets. My cockerels are 13 weeks old and they are OK right now when it comes to confrontations, not too bad at all. With Guppy's help I learned that cockerels start establishing pecking order around 16 weeks, so I guess I can keep them together for 3 more weeks or if they start fighting more often I will separate them earlier. As I understand it after reading this thread, the time to reintroduce the cockerels back to the pullets is 20 weeks, hopefully my pullets will be mature enough for the cockerels to mate (I am keeping 2 cockerels only) and have 12 pullets and 9 one year and a half hens. I am guessing that the hens and the cockerels are going to go thru a pecking order process, my darling alpha hen is not going to like to be demoted at all so I can foresee some fighting here. In your experience, do I just bring the 2 cockerels back to the chicken yard (when time comes and they are 20 weeks old) while the pullets and hens are free ranging and then let them all back in the run/coops area? My 9 hens have their own coop, the pullets and cockerels have another coop but they share the run. I wonder if the hens at the top of the pecking order are going to be too mean to the cockerels. At this point I am guessing that the integration with the pullets will not be as bad as the integration with the hens. Thanks a lot in advance for your help in this matter, this is my first time with roosters and integration. Guppy, thanks for your help and tips.

Don't mean to steal any of Guppy's thunder, but I may have more experience with this than Guppy does.

If you are planning to keep any of the cockerels as flock roosters, I'd put those back in right now. There's no need to separate the flock roosters from the flock; Guppy had some aggressive birds that were causing problems in the flock, but that they wanted to keep for meat, which is why I suggested that they separate the cockerels until they knew which birds were keepers and which were dinner. There is no benefit to pulling the cockerels out now if they will be flock members eventually. Yes, the hens will pick on them. And they may make some awkward mating attempts on the pullets. But that's all totally natural and will work itself out.

Now, cockerels that you're keeping for meat need different food anyway to weigh well at slaughter, so it makes sense to put them in a bachelor pad. And cockerels that will always be separate, for example if you are unwilling to cull any birds or give any away, should be separated. But birds that will eventually flock roosters, there is no reason to pull them out of the flock only to reintroduce later.

Your alpha hen will be just fine. She won't be demoted. The female pecking order and the male pecking order are different things. She'll still be boss hen, and she will submit to the alpha roo or get pecked and/or held down and mated until she submits. It's the way of things and totally natural to her. She'll be fine.

I currently have a 16 week old cockerel (the only keeper from my hatches this year) in with 60 full-grown hens and a full grown rooster. He was moved three days ago (simply put over the fence from the young stock area to the chicken pasture) and he's totally fine. A bit nervous, and not happy with things since I haven't moved the pullets he grew up with yet, but still totally fine and mostly ignored by the rest of the flock.

 

[GuppyTJ]

Hi, Guppy! Thanks for the heads up PM, I might not have looked here otherwise. It sounds like your bachelor pad worked well; I'm glad.

I would just put your keeper cockerels in with the pullets whenever you feel like it. They are young, and the pullets are young, so there will be some fussing and fighting for a bit, but as long as there is no blood, no foul. The pullets won't feel like being dominated, and the cockerels will feel like they have to show the pullets who's boss, but it will totally work itself out. The cockerels may try to get home to sleep in their own pen for a while--you can stop this by locking them and the pullets in the hen house for a few days before you let them out again.

Your pullet is within a couple of weeks of laying (yay, you!) which is why she is squatting. If she wasn't old enough to be mated, she wouldn't squat. Pullets, even from the same clutch of eggs, mature at different rates. Sounds like this one is the most mature.

The grabbing of the neck feathers is normal behavior. He's young, he's inexperienced... and he's losing his balance.

My older rooster hangs on, too. What you've witnessed sounds like a completely normal mating. The chasing them down is also completely normal, especially for young birds. I like the sound of the dancing, showing treats, etc. Sounds like he'll be good to his ladies.

Thanks so much!! Very glad for your confirmation that all is well. So much of what these chickens do is foreign the first time you see it. For example, several weeks ago, the flock master cockeral chased the pullets and they just ran and ran and refused to squat. He'd catch them and they'd keep running even though he was pulling out their feathers. Now, he catches them and they squat. It all makes sense now...

In terms of integrating the keeper cockerals back in with the pullets and your point that I can do this whenever I feel like it... I need to think about this a bit but it's great knowing I can do this whenever and now I know what to expect when I do it.

One additional question if you have time. I want to keep 2 cockerals, one as a primary and one as a spare in case anything happens to the primary. I free range (zero fence, no run, secure coop at night) on the edge of a 3,000 acre forest so I know predators are a risk and probably an eventuality. I only have 7 pullets, though and really don't need anymore at this time. In terms of keeping 2 roosters, others on BYC have suggested putting the spare rooster in a pen somewhere. Is it possible I could let the 2 roosters be with the 7 pullets free ranging and sharing the coop at night (ie, not pen the spare)? The primary rooster is pretty dominant and I was hoping (!) that the primary rooster would keep the spare rooster from mating with the hens so they don't get over-mated. Because the 2 roosters grew up together and so far, get along well, I was also hoping that the 2 roosters would not fight, that the spare rooster would just accept the primary roosters authority. And.... they'd all live peacefully together ever after.... ! Ha!

I figured I'd try this and if it doesn't work, I would probably NOT pen the spare rooster and instead, prepare him for the dinner table too. I just can't see my way to penning the spare rooster off by himself for the rest of his life just in case... Or even penning 2 spares together doesn't sound good to me either, for a bunch of reasons.

Wondering if you have thoughts on this or if there is anything here I'm not thinking of/haven't experienced yet?

Thanks much,
Guppy