Dead Chicken, should I worry about the others?(long)

[RobotChicken]

Today I came home and went to check on the chickens. One was dead in the basement window well.

So I lost one of my 1 year old brown leghorns. This leaves me with 4 chicken, 2 Barred rocks, 1 Black Australorp, 1 Brown leghorn.

I know sometimes chickens just die and you never know why, but I am wondering if I should be concerned about my others.

Some backstory:

Both brown leghorns started going into molt back in late april, my remaining brown leghorn came out of molt first and started laying again(sometime in early June), the other brown leghorn continued to molt slower, and eventually filled on out. Now while her feathers filled in her comb never really returned to its full state, it regained about 50% of its normal size and stayed pretty pink.

Recently in about the last week or a little more I have noticed decreased egg production. I returned from my long weekend(4th) to find my Black Australorp sitting on the nest, I think she was trying to go broody and was sitting on the eggs that I had collected over the couple of days I was gone. For a few days after she was still trying to sit on the eggs, during which time I kept picking her up off the nest and tossing her it with the others in the run(at this time I think I have broken her from being broody and sitting on the eggs, though I don't think she is laying again).

Now I had been concerned about the Brown Leghorn that died because apparently she wasn't laying eggs since her molt was over a while ago, it did not feel like she was an internal layer or any other problem that I could see, and was otherwise normal behaving chicken untill today.

Now for the past few days, since about sunday, I have only gotten one egg a day(brown), presumably from one of my barred rocks. My remaining brown leghorn has not laid since this weekend, my Black Australorp has not laid either for a while(since she apparently went broody).

I had attributed the sever decrease in egg production due to the heat, it has been getting up into the mid to high 80s during the day, and the chickens like to hang out in the shade most of the day as well. You can tell they are hot even in the shade because they have their wings spread out and are doing the open mouth panting move. They have access to all the water they want to drink and can always get in the shade, so I don't think they are getting dangerously hot.

The chicken that died this morning was acting a little odd, when I went in and out of their run I have to walk by the basement window well they like to hang out in, when I walk past most of the time they jump out, she remained down there this morning, several times when I went by. I figured she might have been going broody or just wanting to hang out in the shade. I guess she wasn't feeling well because thats where I found her dead when I got home.

One more bit of the puzzle is that a few days ago I gave away a chicken that had turned into an egg eater and a poor layer, the chicken I gave away had always laid oddly shaped eggs with a weak spot on one side(despite being on layer mash and having access to all the eggshell they want), her weak spot also gave her the opportunity to break her eggs and start eating them. I figured no free loaders so I re-homed her.


Now I know that is a lot of randomly jumbled thoughts and information, most of which is probably not connected to the Cause of Death. But I figured I would through it out there in case any of it has importance. My real concern is if I have some kind of disease or other contagious pathogen that I should be concerned about having spread to my other chickens. Besides the heat is there anything I should be concerned about that would cause low egg production?

 

[threehorses]

Actually, your post is brilliant as most of what you might think is insignificant information is truly very significant indeed!

The most important thing a chicken owner can do when troubleshooting an illness or death is compile a list of absolutely EVERYthing having to do with the entire flock, past and present. This "flock history" is probably the most important tool you have as a chicken owner to troubleshooting issues.

First, in addition to what you've told us below, I'd like to ask a few questions. First, are you giving oyster shell, or just egg shells? I don't like using egg shells as I feel it makes my chickens more likely to eat eggs as they see the shell. I wonder if your hen wasn't eating shells because she needed them and didn't have an additional source of calcium.

The trick with laying food is that it's designed to satisfy the minimum amount of calcium needed for a laying flock. But hens often need more. The feed companies don't want to OVER supplement because that's as harmful as under supplementing. So poultry owners usually use a good bioavailable source of calcium as a free-choice item. That's where oyster shell comes in. It is very bio-available and absorbable. I've never found that egg shells were as useful, and I've used both.. That way the hens can supplement a little extra calcium if they need it.

But calcium absorbtion is actually one leg of a three-legged stool. The other important nutrients are vitamin D3 and phosphorus.

Phosphorus is rarely deficient in a chicken's diet, particularly if they have any grains (even as treats). The more grains added, the more phosphorus available which actually throws the calhos balance off in a diet. So you want to do as you are doing - at least 95% of the diet in a good complete laying ration, and the rest in treats, more laying, supplements, grains, etc. That part of your diet is perfect.

It's more likely that birds experience a slight D3 deficiency than phosphorus. To hedge my bets with my hens, especially if I ever see an egg shell that isn't perfect, is to give an occassional treat of D vitamins in a yogurt treat (which has calcium as well as living beneficial bacteria). Plain unflavored yogurt is readily accepted by many birds. If not, it can easily be mixed into a quickly eaten damp mash given as the first meal of the day after taking up the food late at night. Do this one a week for new layers and during heavy laying period, in addition to good oyster shell (mixed in with their granite grit) for the best eggs.

The reason I bring this up is that, given what I've read here, I suspect that maybe the drop off is because of a lack of calcium - particularly since one hen seemed to have been trying to supplement herself with more calcium. Even though laying feeds have a 3:1 calhos ration, often way more calcium is needed. You've seen one hen showing signs of possible egg-shell hardness issues. It's possible the others are laying soft shelled eggs.

I would definitely recommend tweaking the calcium intake as I described above.

In the mean time, please do go and check all your hens physically by hand. Check them throughly for mites/lice at night off the roost when mites come out. Mites can go without feeding for several days and don't stay on the birds unless they feed. You will want to check them (particularly in warm/moist spots on the body - under the wings, vent area, back of neck) several times over the next few weeks.

While you have them up, feel each hen delicately on her abdomen- between her legs and up to her vent. Do they feel mushy, or soft, lumpy, or hard? Excessively weighty? Move your hand up towards the front to her keel bone/breast bone. Do you feel good padding to each side, or does the keel feel sharply prominant?

Consider your worming program - do you have one? If not, are you seeing any green frothy droppings? Any dropping changes at all, apart from the usual few "bad-chocolate-pudding" cecal droppings?

Feel their crops -are they mushy, full, empty? They should be empty first thing in the morning before the hens feed. You can withhold their feed at night, check them first thing in the morning this weekend to see if their crops are emptying, then give them their "improved nutrition yogurt glop".

These questions will help us to rule out something else like anemia or emaciation.

I hope to be of help to you if you could please answer the questions. I do hope this information in itself has been helpful. Again, it's hard to tell without seeing the flock and knowing more, but I very strongly suspect at the very least a bobble in their laying because of decreased calcium absorbtion and possible soft shells and egg binding because of it.

 

[faykokoWV]

is there any chance of parasites? worms, mites etc?

 

[RobotChicken]

Quote:
They do have oyster shell available, and hardly ever eat it. I think I will go clean out their bowl and put down some more, maybe mix a little in with their feed and see if I can trick them into eating it. (they also have grit available to them but seems to nearly never eat it)

Quote:
Thanks I will give that a try, I have given them yogurt in the past but not for several months.

Quote:
I agree on the calcium intake, the weak shell signs made me think the same thing, but even when presented with oyster shell they never seemed to want any. One time I even tried crushing up old eggshells which they did not seem to want to eat.

Quote:
Between the vents, I would describe as soft. I can feel the "keelbone" and its soft all around her, and does not feel very prominent. I feel no lumps or hardness between the vent. I check them over a couple of times a week, and have never seen any mites, though just because I haven't seen them doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Green frothy? Never with any consistency, every now and then I will see a running or foamy dropping that is of whatever color of the day(when they eat different things it comes out different colors, everywhere from green to brown, and blue one time, that was cool). I do not have a specific worming program, I mix in about 2 tablespoons of vingar with a gallon of water once a week, I read on here somewhere this would help them stay clean of worms.



Quote:
Empty in the mornings, full before bed(and throughout the day), I pretty regularly check their crops and have never felt anything that I thought was an impacted or gas filled crop.
Quote:
Thanks I appreciate it and I think I got back with all your follow up questions. Much appreciated!

-Sam

 

[threehorses]

On the vinegar (organic apple cider vinegar) that actually helps their digestive tract stay more healthy to prevent as many issues with any pathogens, including parasites. But it doesn't actually prevent worms.

Few things do.

Some people use cayenne for the same effect. The way I figure it, I love the natural things (and am about to start trying cayenne to hopefully decrease the possibility of a certain cecal worm that is devestating to turkeys) but I still believe in a twice a year worming, or fecal egg counts on a random 2-3 chickens to show me that I don't need to worm.

I'm about to start doing my own fecals this year so that I can truly tell what's going on with the chicken kids. Fecal egg counts are way more accurate than just fecal checks are.

Interesting about the oyster shell. I'd try the changes to perk their interest. Then if you still have an issue, there are other ways of boosting some calcium at least temporarily til they get back on track. But I'd hope that the yogurt would help.

 

[RobotChicken]

Quote:
After refilling the feeder this morning I put some grit around the base of the feeder(they scratch at it and pull feed on the ground, which they then eat), after about 5 mins(when I went to get the oyster shell), I came back and most of the grit was gone(good part eaten I suspect and the rest was scattered). I then put oyster shell out in the same place which they eyed pensively. I will have to see if they eat it or not.

Now, of my remaining chickens, none of them have ever(at least since initially coming into lay) ever had poor shell quality, soft spots, or deformed eggs(like the chicken I rehomed), and since they never had the desire for oyster shell, I figured they were fine on calcium.

Would a lack of calcium cause a reduction of egg production? Or just a drop in shell quality?

 

[threehorses]

A lack of calcium (or of D3) actually can cause both. More commonly the lack of shell quality happens first, then followed by low egg production. But sometimes we miss the shell quality thing first and they'll go right to low production or soft shells.

I've seen both cases. One hen would lay an egg that would harden but not where it touched the ground. Another stopped laying completely and I found a shell-less egg behind my house one day. So it can go either way.

Lowered egg production on its own without signs of calcium deficiency can also be a number of other things including age (2 years they start decreasing), not enough protein, stress (including heat), parasites (internal and external), etc etc.