Debate on food, free range and egg quality...

[U_Stormcrow]

you are confusing mealworms with earthworms.

"Earthworm as an alternative protein source in poultry and fish farming: Current applications and future perspectives" Seems a strange title if they are talking about mealworms in that study, but i have read mealworm studies, and some cricket studies, and BSFL larvae studies....

 

[Perris]

I'll try and find the author later but when she wrote the book (1960's) a free range dual purpose breed was expected to live on average 10 years old.

Katie Thear?

How much would I have to spend on sardines each week for that flock to supplement a deficient diet? And would my eggs taste fishy?

I share 1 x 125g tin (smaller than a pack of cards) of sardines in oil, costing about 40p, between about 20 birds. The cost is negligible, and anyway I am interested in feeding my birds well, not in getting eggs out of them at minimal possible cost.

 

[Perris]

I do not understand the repetition of nonsense about feeding live mealworms. Regarding fat, many of the nutrients in grain are fat soluble, so if there is no fat served with them then the nutrients are not metabolized. That's why fat is added to commercial feed in the form of veg oil (apparently, but who can tell with the current labelling and enforcement regimes?). Second, since my birds are foraging, they burn a lot of energy. None are remotely overweight or have ever shown signs of fatty liver issues. Third, if you have a mealworm farm you know exactly what the mealworms have eaten and therefore whether or not its wholesome, regardless of what some lab tech might make of it. It's called food, not chemistry.

 

[Perris]

"Earthworm as an alternative protein source in poultry and fish farming: Current applications and future perspectives" Seems a strange title if they are talking about mealworms in that study, but i have read mealworm studies, and some cricket studies, and BSFL larvae studies....

relevance?

 

[3KillerBs]

In my survival flock I value the old hens because they lay bigger eggs and have the world-wise experience. They make for being better mommas and raising stronger chicks. And they’ve generally passed the test of time. So I do not cull for age alone. I offset the lower egg numbers an individual older hen produces by having more of them.

I never thought to weigh eggs before. I did so last night. My free-rangers across various large breeds of both layers and full sized games make eggs that weigh 1.8-1.9 oz a piece. The little Cracker eggs weigh 1.2 oz. Tonight I will compare some coop-grain fed, American game bantam eggs to free range Cracker eggs. I’ll compare eggs that eyeball to substantially same dimensions to see of there is a difference in weight.

When you have the appropriate land and setup for not having to buy feed keeping more hens makes sense.

I'm working toward larger eggs, because my preliminary research into farm egg sales indicates that my potential customers want large and extra-large. I don't weigh them all the time, but I weigh samples periodically.

I mostly get 55-70g eggs so far, depending on how many pullets there are. I've noticed that egg size on average dropped off a bit in the past month with eggs as small as 50g and no larger than 67g. I don't know if that's because spring is peak production or because it's been so blistering HOT lately. (I habitually weigh eggs in grams rather than ounces because I got into that habit before I got the better scale).

It would be an interesting experiment to see if there were any change in feed consumption and/or egg production/quality if I could allow my chickens into the woods. I'd need at least 2 more sections of poultry-netting though.

given that chickens are omnivores, I think such people are misguided.

I used to laugh every time I saw the Egglands Best carton that advertised "Chickens fed an all-natural, vegetarian diet," since there is nothing natural about a vegetarian chicken.

I share 1 x 125g tin (smaller than a pack of cards) of sardines in oil, costing about 40p, between about 20 birds. The cost is negligible, and anyway I am interested in feeding my birds well, not in getting eggs out of them at minimal possible cost.

On principle, I don't feed people food to animals.

I have in my life been poor enough that if our church hadn't fed us we wouldn't have eaten so I draw a very hard line on that. Chickens get only scraps, trimmings, and the like.

I'm very fuzzy on exchange rates so I can't tell if you pay more or less than I do for sardines. But for approximately $4/lb I could be buying hamburger for my family rather than sardines for my chickens.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You are responding to a post in which I quoted your exact words. Then I asked about what those words meant. (I was asking about the parts that I quoted. There were two quotes in that post.)

Are things displaying differently on your screen than mine, so maybe you did not see what I quoted? Just for clarity: I have ONE quote from @Shadrach in THIS post.

While Shadrach now has me on Ignore, I have also had great difficulty discerning between what that poster has written, and what they intend to communicate - at times (even within the same thread, as here) - they seem to argue both sides of a point they deny making. I initially assumed a language barrier of some sort, but S assures me that is not the case.
While I am occasionally less than clear, and at least once completely misread one of their posts (later acknowledged), I am not convinced the fault in communication is solely mine.

Your understanding of the message S appeared to be communicating in the earleir responses and my own understanding of the massage seem to be quite close. Apparently, not the message S thought they were conveying.

 

[Perris]

i have read mealworm studies

since you fail to provide any links to such, let me for those who want to pursue it: this is a review of several
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11250-019-02033-7

 

[U_Stormcrow]

relevance?

You suggested I had confused mealworms for earthworms, in response to a post I made about earthworms, linking another post I made ... about earthworms... in another thread.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I do not understand the repetition of nonsense about feeding live mealworms. Regarding fat, many of the nutrients in grain are fat soluble, so if there is no fat served with them then the nutrients are not metabolized. That's why fat is added to commercial feed in the form of veg oil (apparently, but who can tell with the current labelling and enforcement regimes?). Second, since my birds are foraging, they burn a lot of energy. None are remotely overweight or have ever shown signs of fatty liver issues. Third, if you have a mealworm farm you know exactly what the mealworms have eaten and therefore whether or not its wholesome, regardless of what some lab tech might make of it. It's called food, not chemistry.

I grow black soldier fly maggots under the feet of artificially incubated chicks in an off-the-ground brooder. Every few weeks I add inches of leaf litter to the brooder and once in a while I wet the substrate. About 4-6 inches down under the chicks is a writhing layer of maggots and compost that’s hot to the touch. Once a day I grab a handful of the maggots and mush out and let the chicks eat their fill.

I still offer the chicks commercial crumbles but the daily maggots have greatly reduced their feed intake. I am not fretting over the maggots’ fat content. These chicks are oriental gamefowl crosses and are fathered by my mouse-eating rooster so I figure the high animal component of their diet is a plus. They’re growing huge.

 

[Perris]

On principle, I don't feed people food to animals.

but you do if you're buying commercial feed! That grain and soy could be feeding people.