Debate on food, free range and egg quality...

[U_Stormcrow]

Not sure, but it is possible. Walnuts have a chemical (juglone) that suppresses competing plants in the area where the leaves fall. I doubt (but do not have experience) that it would harm the garden.
From Iowa State University:

I have black walnut on property. Like the bracken fern, and the soda apple, none of my animals have the least bit interest in it. Same with the potato foliage, and the tomato foliage. But they have choices, which is the key.

 

[3KillerBs]

I get that, but if killing off/harvesting at 85% maturity allows for a second planting to be harvested at 60 %, that's a gain?

Admittedly, I know nothing about soy.

In my area soybeans are commonly grown in a rotation with field corn and winter wheat. I don't know what rotations are used in other parts of the country but I do know that it's rare to plant the same crop back to back due to land fertility and pest issues.

 

[3KillerBs]

P.S. I am in an area that allows 3 crops per year.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

While I respect a choice to avoid (or at least attempt to avoid) glyphosate treated crops due to its potential for environmental damage, that has nothing to do with the nutrition of soy, gmo or otherwise.

Glyphosate's method of operation is by binding the shikimate pathway in plants, used by them to produce a host of amino acids critical to growth. Animals have no such pathway to be blocked - though its plenty toxic to fish for other reasons. Its secondary effect inhibit a number of mineral uptake mechanisms, at levels far too low to be dangerous to us or our chickens. On the basis os mechanisms of operation, Amprolium is more dangerous to us and our chickens - its mechanism is known to affect thiamine uptake in animals (at levels too low to be concerning, and rapidly corrected in the event of accidental extreme dosage by way of a B-vitamin pill.

The only Gov't agency to label it as a probable carcinogen had a trial lawyer expert witness steering the committee while taking money from plaintiff's firms, and then making much more moeny afterwards as their expert witness. Subsequent reviews in the EU and the US have failed to duplicate their findings.

I do not discount, however, that there are some very few people who do have a severe allergy to some chemical found in soy, which is seemingly transfered to eggs by soy eating chickens in some tiny fraction of the consumed amount. My soy recommends should be understood to be for the very vast majority, not the extremely rare few.

Sort of like my enjoyment of peanut butter cups, which I also recommend (but not for chickens), though they would be fatal to three of my close friends.

 

[saysfaa]

...
From Iowa State University:

Walnut leaves can be composted because the juglone toxin breaks down when exposed to air, water and bacteria. The toxic effect can be degraded in two to four weeks.

Thank you. You saved me some time next fall looking it up .

I hadn't looked beyond whether the juglone breaks down as dry leaves in a paper yard bag or as dry bedding...if I remember correctly. So far, I've had enough maple leaves for what I do but we did expand the garden again this year.

 

[samanthaoverton]

Your wife is, politely, "mistaken". I would guess she has fallen prey to marketing and attractive buzz words. No disrespect - if they didn't work most of the time, for most of the people, we wouldn't have a business in "marketing".

Feeding chickens an optimal diet is COMPLICATED - and humans, as a general rule, don't like Complicated. Honestly, we are a time limited species - we don't have enough lifespan to research things for ourself, se we are forced to rely on others for much of the information upon which we base our decisions. "Influencers".

and "Pastured" is one of those buzz words of uncertain and somewhat nebulous definition. The quality of eggs from pasture raised hens depends almost entirely on the quality of the pasture, though size can help mitigate somewhat for poor production.

As a practical matter, one can neither meet the optimum nutritional needs of one's chickens from their own pasture (in almost every case), and one can not completely feed one's flock from one's own pasture (in almost every case). That's not to say that chickens can't survive on one's own land without a commercial feed (or a home mixed feed - which I don't recommend attempting), simply that the nutritional needs of a modern bird to be most productive are much higher than is available thru nature alone.

Gallus Gallus Domesticus - the domestic chicken - has been bred by man to be far more productive than its jungle fowl ancestors - and that productivity comes with a need for man to provide support for them.

I've been at this a couple years now, my flock is in my Sig below. My birds free range around five acres, in one of the most forgiving climates in this nation. Its split roughly two acres of pasture and three acres of woods I am slowly clearing to expand the pasture. The pasture is one I've deliberately planted with a mix of greens. Best case? I save about 35% on my expected feed amounts during the most productive part of the year, and closer to 10% during the least. That's not to say it can't be done better - I hope that it can, its why I keep trying things to improve on what I'm doing. Its merely an example of what should be reasoanble expectations for what can be (relatively) quickly accomplished with limited efforts at continued maintenance.

Hey would you happen to have a list of your greens that you specifically planted?

 

[Krugerrand]

While I respect a choice to avoid (or at least attempt to avoid) glyphosate treated crops due to its potential for environmental damage, that has nothing to do with the nutrition of soy, gmo or otherwise.

Glyphosate's method of operation is by binding the shikimate pathway in plants, used by them to produce a host of amino acids critical to growth. Animals have no such pathway to be blocked - though its plenty toxic to fish for other reasons. Its secondary effect inhibit a number of mineral uptake mechanisms, at levels far too low to be dangerous to us or our chickens. On the basis os mechanisms of operation, Amprolium is more dangerous to us and our chickens - its mechanism is known to affect thiamine uptake in animals (at levels too low to be concerning, and rapidly corrected in the event of accidental extreme dosage by way of a B-vitamin pill.

The only Gov't agency to label it as a probable carcinogen had a trial lawyer expert witness steering the committee while taking money from plaintiff's firms, and then making much more moeny afterwards as their expert witness. Subsequent reviews in the EU and the US have failed to duplicate their findings.

I do not discount, however, that there are some very few people who do have a severe allergy to some chemical found in soy, which is seemingly transfered to eggs by soy eating chickens in some tiny fraction of the consumed amount. My soy recommends should be understood to be for the very vast majority, not the extremely rare few.

Sort of like my enjoyment of peanut butter cups, which I also recommend (but not for chickens), though they would be fatal to three of my close friends.

Frankly, I'm not overly worried about how glyphosate affects my chickens directly. It's only because I'm eating their eggs that I'm concerned. I'm not worried about what the pet rabbit eats.

<edited below, as link does not support my statement.>
We do know that glyphosate finds its way into the chicken eggs.
https://investigatemidwest.org/2018...les-in-its-first-ever-test-for-the-herbicide/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63365-1

How much is too much? I don't know.

I have very little confidence in our government agencies to respond to properly label threats in a timely manner. You point out "taking money" on the plaintiff firm side, but make no mention of where Monsanto has 'invested' its money.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Frankly, I'm not overly worried about how glyphosate affects my chickens directly. It's only because I'm eating their eggs that I'm concerned. I'm not worried about what the pet rabbit eats.

We do know that glyphosate finds its way into the chicken eggs.
https://investigatemidwest.org/2018...les-in-its-first-ever-test-for-the-herbicide/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63365-1

How much is too much? I don't know.

I have very little confidence in our government agencies to respond to properly label threats in a timely manner. You point out "taking money" on the plaintiff firm side, but make no mention of where Monsanto has 'invested' its money.

Where "both sides" have invested in buying outcomes, one can assume that nothing is known because all the data is purchased, or one can look to the research itself. In this particular case, the research overwhelmingly favors Monsanto with regard glyphosate as a human carcinogen - but disfavors them on a host of other questions, specifically those related to its consequences to pant and aquatic life.

Chemistry is uncaring - we know HOW glyphosate works (and other organo-phosphonates), and we know how the human body works. There is no offered mechanism for how glyphosate might be a human carcinogen. There are plenty of offered mechanisms - well studied, well understood, in no way controversial - for what it does to plant life.

...and if its simply keeping glyphosate out of your diet, however its delivered, in addition to soy, and corn, you should also give up canola oils, sugar (its used on sugar beets, the source of most US sugar), wheat, dried beans, peas, peanuts, sunflower seeds, a host of fruits and nuts, grapes, some citrus, asparagus, onions, and numerous other veggie crops).

I happen to think that's taking the precautionary principal a few steps too far - but your body, your choice.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hey would you happen to have a list of your greens that you specifically planted?

Its in My Acres of Weeds. I've not made a specific list, and add more each year, to see what will perform adequately in my soil, and self propogate.

I'll try and come up with a list later.

 

[NatJ]

sugar beets, the source of most US sugar

I keep seeing "pure cane sugar" printed on bags in the store

(But I suppose the bags in the store are only a small part of the sugar we eat, and I don't know whether cane sugar or beet sugar is usually used in candy, beverages, bakery goods, and so forth.)