Deep Litter Method on concrete

[Toothpick]

I use pine shavings in my 8x10 coop. It’s a wood shed, and I put Black Jack Rubr Coat 57 on the floor and a foot up the walls. Then just loaded in the pine shavings until they cover the floor pretty good. I throw Diatomaceous Earth and Sweet PDZ on the floor too. I change it all out about 2x a year. When I change it out I spread it on the garden and till it in.

I highly recommend poop boards with roughly 2-3” of Sweet PDZ. Every day (2 days max) I scoop out the poop like a litter box. It’s awesome. Especially because the chickens roost in the same spot every night.

I don’t know that concrete would be good because it may hold moisture in. But I have no experience with it.

 

[HCBeck]

Possible....if you're a very skilled composter..... but highly, highly improbable.
I'd strongly advise against it.....just because of the moisture involved.
Any heat generated would be made moot by the year round ventilation you'll need to get rid of the moisture just from poop and respiration. Not cold enough where you are to need heat anyway(except maybe for waterer heater), but frostbite can still be a concern. JHMO.

Incredibly helpful. Thank you! I made sure to get cold hardy birds because it seemed like it will be easier to try to keep them cool in the summer than try to keep them warm in the winter when I can barely keep myself warm! I don't mind going out multiple times daily in the summer but will mind more in the winter.

 

[jolenesdad]

Deep Litter is gross while you figure it out... FYI. ;-)

It is not impossible to have DLM on concrete and there are some great scholarly articles on it if you do a really intensive search (including google scholar) you’ll find information about it.

Aart said ALL the same things to me in my quest for deep litter on concrete. I actually am a pretty skilled composted with horse manure and pine shavings and I measure temperatures and moisture so it made sense to me to try.

I don’t find a barrier entrance difficult at all. You just step over it, mine is 2 feet tall.

I went to a LOT of trouble to figure out exactly what carbon/nitrogen ratio I needed but as @aart has preached already, it’s all about moisture. Too much moisture and you’re in a REAL mess. Too little and you’re going nowhere fast.

I personally found that it’s too gross while you’re figuring it out. Without the right moisture, I had nothing but dry pulverized 18 inches of manure and shavings in my coop. And the top level? Don’t get me started. You’re constantly walking in poop and getting big clumps stuck to you. My chickens do a FABULOUS job of s ratching and mixing it. So what. They’re bringing yesterday’s poop to the top and putting today’s elsewhere. You still step in it. I’d rather clean more often.

And my LAST straw was the realization that I probably was making my chickens unhealthy for me. Deep litter with just pine shavings and other light items means you cannot keep your chickens from wallowing in it. Gross. Eventually it’s nothing but poop they’re rolling in and even if you don’t handle them, the thought of what they’re shaking off when they ruffle their feathers.... well... It just doesn’t seem healthy.

I firmly believe it can be done. I just don’t have the time to micromanage at the level you need to to figure it out.

I have personally moved to deep bedding in my coop/run combo. GAH I should’ve just listened to Aart. ;-) I find I spend less time with a small clean out weekly, and a monthly or so larger clean out, than I was picking poop off my shoes.

Good luck. I may try and find some of the articles I used for my research if I have time during toddler nap time today!

 

[HCBeck]

I use pine shavings in my 8x10 coop. It’s a wood shed, and I put Black Jack Rubr Coat 57 on the floor and a foot up the walls. Then just loaded in the pine shavings until they cover the floor pretty good. I throw Diatomaceous Earth and Sweet PDZ on the floor too. I change it all out about 2x a year. When I change it out I spread it on the garden and till it in.

I highly recommend poop boards with roughly 2-3” of Sweet PDZ. Every day (2 days max) I scoop out the poop like a litter box. It’s awesome. Especially because the chickens roost in the same spot every night.

I don’t know that concrete would be good because it may hold moisture in. But I have no experience with it.

That's a lot of good information and sounds like a great plan to go with. Do you have a plywood floor and then you coat that with the Black Jack? I had bought linoleum for the floor but that wouldn't help me out much if I implement your plan, would it? How many hens do you have with that size coop? I'd love to be able to only clean out 2x/year; I will have 8 hens in a 8x5 coop.

 

[aart]

I have vinyl flooring...here's my management scenario:
-I use poop boards under roosts with thin(<1/2") layer of sand/PDZ mix, sifted daily(takes 5-10mins) into bucket going to friends compost.

-Scrape big or wet poops off roost and ramps as needed.

-Pine shavings on coop floor, add some occasionally, totally changed out once or twice a year, old shavings added to run.

-Runs have semi-deep litter, never clean anything out, just add smaller dry materials on occasion, add larger wood chippings as needed.

-Nests are bedded with straw, add some occasionally, change out if needed(broken egg).

There is no odor, unless a fresh cecal has been dropped and when I open the bucket to add more poop.

That's how I keep it 'clean', have not found any reason to clean 'deeper' in 5 years.

 

[Col1948]

I have poop boards, so easy to keep clean, I just scrape the poop off and clean the boards, no deep litter, saved me a some money and time.

 

[HCBeck]

I have vinyl flooring...here's my management scenario:
-I use poop boards under roosts with thin(<1/2") layer of sand/PDZ mix, sifted daily(takes 5-10mins) into bucket going to friends compost.

-Scrape big or wet poops off roost and ramps as needed.

-Pine shavings on coop floor, add some occasionally, totally changed out once or twice a year, old shavings added to run.

-Runs have semi-deep litter, never clean anything out, just add smaller dry materials on occasion, add larger wood chippings as needed.

-Nests are bedded with straw, add some occasionally, change out if needed(broken egg).

There is no odor, unless a fresh cecal has been dropped and when I open the bucket to add more poop.

That's how I keep it 'clean', have not found any reason to clean 'deeper' in 5 years.

I like hearing that. I have quite a few kids and pets and was relying on the DLM to save me a lot of time. This is right along with what I was looking for. Thanks so much for taking the time to share!

 

[HCBeck]

Deep Litter is gross while you figure it out... FYI. ;-)

It is not impossible to have DLM on concrete and there are some great scholarly articles on it if you do a really intensive search (including google scholar) you’ll find information about it.

Aart said ALL the same things to me in my quest for deep litter on concrete. I actually am a pretty skilled composted with horse manure and pine shavings and I measure temperatures and moisture so it made sense to me to try.

I don’t find a barrier entrance difficult at all. You just step over it, mine is 2 feet tall.

I went to a LOT of trouble to figure out exactly what carbon/nitrogen ratio I needed but as @aart has preached already, it’s all about moisture. Too much moisture and you’re in a REAL mess. Too little and you’re going nowhere fast.

I personally found that it’s too gross while you’re figuring it out. Without the right moisture, I had nothing but dry pulverized 18 inches of manure and shavings in my coop. And the top level? Don’t get me started. You’re constantly walking in poop and getting big clumps stuck to you. My chickens do a FABULOUS job of s ratching and mixing it. So what. They’re bringing yesterday’s poop to the top and putting today’s elsewhere. You still step in it. I’d rather clean more often.

And my LAST straw was the realization that I probably was making my chickens unhealthy for me. Deep litter with just pine shavings and other light items means you cannot keep your chickens from wallowing in it. Gross. Eventually it’s nothing but poop they’re rolling in and even if you don’t handle them, the thought of what they’re shaking off when they ruffle their feathers.... well... It just doesn’t seem healthy.

I firmly believe it can be done. I just don’t have the time to micromanage at the level you need to to figure it out.

I have personally moved to deep bedding in my coop/run combo. GAH I should’ve just listened to Aart. ;-) I find I spend less time with a small clean out weekly, and a monthly or so larger clean out, than I was picking poop off my shoes.

Good luck. I may try and find some of the articles I used for my research if I have time during toddler nap time today!

I am NOT a skilled composter but after reading about the deep litter method it just resonated with me and sounded so natural.

Would it be safe to say that if I don't have a moisture/drainage problem on my concrete, DLM might work if I can keep up with covering the poop with shavings? Or is that totally oversimplifying it?

I definitely don't want unhealthy chickens! So can you explain the deep BEDDING method to me and how that differs from someone who does not do DLM or the alternative? If that makes sense?

 

[jolenesdad]

Deep “bedding” is what art does. It’s dry. Deep litter is actively trying to compost the litter.

I have sort of always been doing deep bedding because of my lack of moisture. I actually REMOVED poop boards because I had counted on 24 hours of poop load per chicken to have the right ratios. So I let my deep bedding go on too long and get too much poop trying to get it to kick over to deep litter. (Sorry if this sounds confusing....)

If you have poop boards then you’ll have hardly any poop in the COOP. You’ll be fine on deep bedding method.

Re: water... I don’t quite know.... I don’t have a drainage problem I’m on a concrete pad that was a horse wash bay... it’s sloped and has a drain. It’s the lack of water that is my issue. If you have water that runs through there in rain or storms, you may have too Much water. But I think using larger materials like the wood chips @aart uses would really help.

 

[aart]

The term 'deep litter' is often misunderstood and misapplied.
I've always liked this explanation:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1075545/can-i-do-deep-litter-method-with-this-coop#post_16440037

Managing a truly composting deep litter can be tricky, you have to understand what it contains(both materials and the organisms that break it down) and how it works in order to manage it effectively or it can turn into an unhealthy nightmare. It's not just piling up a bunch of stuff and, viola!