Deep litter method

[BigPeep]

I just got my chickens and was concerned with how to handle the floor situation. I do not have a walk in coop and do not want to build one. I have allergies and don't want to expose myself to an indoor dust situation. I have therefore reconfigured a large wooden packing crate with reach in nest boxes so I don't have to go inside. To solve the problem of cleaning, I have used a wire floor. The entire thing sits on cinder blocks at the corners so the poop falls on the ground onto wood shavings which I can rake up from the outside as needed. I was told recently that the wire floor might be a problem for the birds but they only go in there at night to roost and the rest of the time are basically free range so I don't think that is such a big problem.

The issue then becomes what to do over the winter. The wire is going to be too cold and will let in air. I also want to put a larger number of birds in there than is recommended on the assumption that they will be spending most of their time outdoors. There would be up to ten birds in a 4 ft by 6ft by 3 ft high coop. The current nest boxes are interior with an exterior flap to access the eggs and clean but I could replace those with exterior nests so the entire inside is available and at least six birds can sit on the nests. I would replace the current wire windows with scrap double walled clear polycarb from my greenhouse construction.

I was figuring that this will generate a lot more body heat which will be contained in much less volume of air than a walk in coop so it should keep the birds toasty. The roof has vents around three sides to let the hot air and gases escape. The entire thing is also sheltered on the North and West by buildings.

However, having this many birds in a small space will require more cleaning.

The deep litter idea appeals to me in that regard. I was figuring on surrounding the foundation of the coop with cinder blocks and then filling it with pine shavings, after first removing the wire floor so the birds can dig into the shavings. That will give me about six inches which could be increased if I add another layer of cinder block on top of the first. However, cleaning would likely be difficult as the door is only large enough for the birds unless I put hinges on the roof. Even with hinges, it's going to be a pain to clean (allergy problem again here). I could remove one side of the cinder blocks and do it that way but they will probably be frozen hard to the ground by then.

If I can leave the whole thing with just mixing the litter until Spring, that would be ideal. Can I really do that and how many birds per square foot would it support assuming that they will have access to the outside all day? I could also throw up a small polycarb outside run to expand the area available. I was thinking of building something out of that material to use for chicks in early Spring anyway.

I am getting another set of chicks in over the Summer and wanted to build another enclosure for them using the same design so I need to have this answered before I do that. Your thoughts?

 

[patandchickens]

BigPeep, welcome to BYC

What climate are you in? The reason I ask is because having a small-volume winter coop is not only a lot harder to manage (in several various ways), it is also likely to be more allergenic. But unless you are in a SUPER cold place, like upper Minnesota or something, you might do really well with (well chosen breeds in) a deep shed style coop with the SE wall totally open (wire). As long as the shed is DEEP, and there is some sort of hover or whatever over/around the roost to let the birds concentrate their body heat (not needed if you have kajillions of birds) they would be fine down to pretty cold temperatures, and because it would be essentially open air it hsould not build up lots and lots of allergens, compared to a closed coop. (You'd still probably want to wear a dust mask when stirring up litter i.e. when cleaning, no matter WHAT kind of coop you have)

Quite honestly, I think you'll have to SEE whether deep litter is better or worse for your allergies. It will be dustier than frequently-changed litter (or more mold-spore-y, depending what exactly you do) and will also accumulate more and more chicken dander (of which there's a LOT) as time goes by. So it might be wise to take a "try different things and see what's best" attitude.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[BigPeep]

Pat: Thanks for the response. We are in Northern Illinois. Not quite as bad as MN, but not Alabama either.

The advantage to me of the small coop is that I can remain outside so even if I have to clean it, there is a lot of air circulation around me. I plan to wear a mask when I clean it though. I just don't want to have to walk inside every time I go to get the eggs.

Each bird would only have about two square feet of space on the floor plus an additional half a square foot if you count the boxes. I have been told that's not enough for Winter but I can't see why you need that much more than in Summer if the birds are going to be outside during the day. Unless there is a blizzard going on, the whole thing is well protected. I get the feeling that people are not really attuned to the idea of a non walk in coop with more free roaming chickens.

Thanks again.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Well, it is hard to be sure the birds ARE going to be outside during the day in winter. Some birds will, many days anyhow; others won't. It'd be pretty hard on them to try to MAKE them stay out, like by locking the coop door, so you are at the mercy of what your particular chickens happen to feel like doing. If you can have a roofed, 3-sides-tarp-wrapped run, that'll make them more inclined to be out more of the time, but it really really comes down to your particular birds.

(For what it's worth, mine don't like going out for very long if the temperature is less than 20 F or so, even higher if there's a wind through the run, and that's WITH a fully roofed run. Of course chickens vary, but, unpredicatably)

Another pretty significant thing to consider is how much harder it is to satisfactorily manage a very small, small-air-volume coop during a Northern winter:

First, you will always be standing outside in the nasty weather when you have to work with the chickens/coop. You often won't be able to just wait for things to be nicer -- they need water when they need water, you know? Sort of thing.

Second, it gets to be pretty hard to maintain good air quality in there. You need good ventilation (more per square foot, actually, than in a walk-in coop) YET with such a tiny coop it's quite challenging to design the ventilation so it doesn't result in drafts right at the chickens, and you will be exchanging so large a fraction of the air in the coop that the temperature tends to be rather cold in there if you have adequate ventilation. (If you don't have adequate ventilation, you are as or more likely to get frostbite, because it occurs so much more readily in humid air. There are a LOT of people on this forum who have been unhappily surprised to discover that they have ended up with frostbit combs because they closed off their vents in an effort to keep the coop warm...).

It can be done. But requires very careful design and management to work well. If you really, really want to try, I would suggest making the run large, roofed (to snow load requirements) and 3-sides-walled (at least for winter), with human access to coop from inside the run. Indeed, this would more or less amount to what I described in my previous post -- an open-air deep-shed coop with a roosting box...

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Anny]

2 square feet of space just seems so small to me. That's not even enough for them to fully open with wings if they are inside.

I can completely clean my coop with out going inside the coop and it's 4ft by 8 feet. It's raised off the ground for ease of cleaning.

I know in the winter here in Michigan my birds did spend ALOT of time inside the coop during the 6 month long winter. Sure they went out side everyday, but then they would go back inside to warm up...they spent more time inside them out on the cold days.

 

[dipence71]

Quote:
I also have allot of allergies and asthma but I find that they are not bothered by my chickens and the coop. I use deep litter method and I will occasionally go "hang out"

with my girls in the coop for hours at a time. Or when I need to get away fro the DH and DDs

I will go hide

in the chicken coop(unfortunately they usually come find me because they know where I go hide lol). I am always on allergy meds (not just since the chickens but for years) and it so far has not bothered me much.
What does bother me is when I have to mix their food with grit it can get really dusty and that does seem to bother me a bit.

Hope this helps.

 

[BigPeep]

Thanks. WHen I say "allergy" I mean asthma, not just sneezing and watery eyes. I also give myself shots. The main thing that bothers me is hay and straw. Woods chips and shavings not so much. I did notice that the original post recommended diatomaceus earth, which is a huge respiratory irritant, although I am not so sure if the food grade is a problem in that respect. Any info on that?

 

[Anny]

HAve you considered using wood pellets for bedding instead of something more dusty. You don't have to use hay or straw at all. You could use wood pellets in the main par tof the coop wood shaving in the nesting boxes.

 

[Sillystunt]

ok, so pine shavings?? will pine mulch work??? I use the deep litter method but use all of our oak leaves. I just got straw to put in there as well. We moved our coop and the dirt under where it was...well lets just say veggie garden..lol

 

[Hennyhandler]

I have just started the deep litter method at the begining of this year and though it works and i think im doing it right it is the first time. I don't understand why you keep adding litter to it every week is this to keep the litter to the same amount of poop that accumulates over time? Also i have seen a couple of ants in the corner of my coop. should i be worried that they may start to move in or will my hens take care of the problem for me?