Definitely guinea spring

[Sydney65]

Glad to here they are behaving themselves
And letting the roofers work.... my birds need to learn some company manors.
I had someone out to buy chicks today and of course the guineas and turkeys came running. The guineas squawked up a storm while the turkeys came in close strutting. The poor dad refused to come out of the car till I walked the boys far enough away that he could get out and stand on the other side of the vehicle

This will be the 1st batch's second spring/summer as adults, hatched 2019.
Something different happened awhile ago that I'm not quite sure how to interpret.
It's a good day for spring cleaning while everyone was out. So I scrubbed things down and raked out old bedding, feathers,etc. I didn't find any eggs in the coop, there were a couple of nests.
When I went in the coop, the mating ritual was well in play, between males wrestling and then chasing down females.
When I came out, I found that Himself had let the 3 dogs out. We have a new one who hasn't quite learned to give guineas space & does like to give chase, but I hadn't heard any ruckus to indicate that had happened.
Anyway, I called the dogs to take them in when the male jumbo ran up behind me and nipped me in the back of leg. It didn't hurt, it just stunned me. When I looked back, he'd scurried back about 6', but I could tell he was angry -beak open, panting.
But I'm wondering WHY he did it. He always runs up behind & follows me, as do they all, but has never done that.
I have never forgotten @R2elk 's lecture, believe me. But it seems odd that he'd do it now.
It's stunning bc as I've shared ad nauseum, I handle my birds frequently, and my boys have always been calm. I've dealt w/skittish females who will snap at anything, even the males air-poke to make clear that we're having a "don't touch me" moment. But PJ has always been laid back, as though he knows he's the big dog w/nothing to prove. He doesn't even bother getting involved in the male dominance fighting. Was he agitated by the dogs, by me cleaning out the coop, or is he going Jekyll & Hyde on me?
I've flipped through old posts, so afraid ya'll are going to tell me to kill my bird.
So, ...I'm going to go out and wash some feet, trim some nails, and see if I survive it.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

This will be the 1st batch's second spring/summer as adults, hatched 2019.
Something different happened awhile ago that I'm not quite sure how to interpret.
It's a good day for spring cleaning while everyone was out. So I scrubbed things down and raked out old bedding, feathers,etc. I didn't find any eggs in the coop, there were a couple of nests.
When I went in the coop, the mating ritual was well in play, between males wrestling and then chasing down females.
When I came out, I found that Himself had let the 3 dogs out. We have a new one who hasn't quite learned to give guineas space & does like to give chase, but I hadn't heard any ruckus to indicate that had happened.
Anyway, I called the dogs to take them in when the male jumbo ran up behind me and nipped me in the back of leg. It didn't hurt, it just stunned me. When I looked back, he'd scurried back about 6', but I could tell he was angry -beak open, panting.
But I'm wondering WHY he did it. He always runs up behind & follows me, as do they all, but has never done that.
I have never forgotten @R2elk 's lecture, believe me. But it seems odd that he'd do it now.
It's stunning bc as I've shared ad nauseum, I handle my birds frequently, and my boys have always been calm. I've dealt w/skittish females who will snap at anything, even the males air-poke to make clear that we're having a "don't touch me" moment. But PJ has always been laid back, as though he knows he's the big dog w/nothing to prove. He doesn't even bother getting involved in the male dominance fighting. Was he agitated by the dogs, by me cleaning out the coop, or is he going Jekyll & Hyde on me?
I've flipped through old posts, so afraid ya'll are going to tell me to kill my bird.
So, ...I'm going to go out and wash some feet, trim some nails, and see if I survive it.

I’m sorry Sydney! I know these guys are your babies! Don’t freak just yet! I recently had to have a little talking to with my head bachelor pad rooster who ran out of his coop when I opened the door and he acted like he was about to attack me with his dagger spur that I need to trim... At least guineas don’t have spurs!

All of the guy poultry are feeling particularly frisky right now. I think my guinea cocks are way too afraid of me to attack me, but my roos aren’t nearly so afraid so they will sometimes challenge me. I’m guessing that your PJ is feeling his oats and thinks about you more like a lead guinea to challenge. Guineas are a lot easier to intimidate than roosters, so think of a game plan of how you’ll handle it if he challenges you. For my roos, I try to convince them that: 1) I’m not a bird, so challenging me brings no rewards, including a brain rush from the challenge itself, and 2) challenging me brings something unpleasant but not terrifying. My preferred method of doing this is quickly grabbing them if they challenge me. Then I pick them up and carry them around, outside their territory for awhile (about 10 min). It’s unpleasant and baffling for them as this is not how a challenged rooster would react. By the time I put them down, most will get away from me pretty quickly and won’t try again for awhile. If they come right back at me, then we have a problem and I’ve had to take a few to freezer camp for refusing the hint. Think about how you can react that is unpleasant but un-guinea like!

 

[My2butterflies]

@Sydney65 Oh boy! Sounds like my chicken rooster on a bad day.
Im not sure why he’d do that

 

[Sydney65]

I went out and did exactly as I said I was, everyone had their feet washed, nails trimmed, feet and legs vasolined and ivermectin drops. PJ was 1st up. I held him, cuddled him, talked to him, and he was perfectly calm, curled his toes over my fingers while I worked. Even sat and held him afterwards rubbing his neck and he closed his eyes, laid his head up against me.️ THAT'S normal.
I'm sure it is the season, plus I intentionally don't have the dogs out while the guineas are out.
But- I think he's going to have to be locked up when the grans are outside. Like I said, it didn't hurt or break the skin, it was just -shocking. Now if it had been one of the twins, I wouldn't have been at all surprised. I so hope they chill out after their 1st season like Rosie did.
Now..what exactly do you do to be not-guinea like?! Lol. I guess I need to stop talking to them in their own language.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I went out and did exactly as I said I was, everyone had their feet washed, nails trimmed, feet and legs vasolined and ivermectin drops. PJ was 1st up. I held him, cuddled him, talked to him, and he was perfectly calm, curled his toes over my fingers while I worked. Even sat and held him afterwards rubbing his neck and he closed his eyes, laid his head up against me.️ THAT'S normal.
I'm sure it is the season, plus I intentionally don't have the dogs out while the guineas are out.
But- I think he's going to have to be locked up when the grans are outside. Like I said, it didn't hurt or break the skin, it was just -shocking. Now if it had been one of the twins, I wouldn't have been at all surprised. I so hope they chill out after their 1st season like Rosie did.
Now..what exactly do you do to be not-guinea like?! Lol. I guess I need to stop talking to them in their own language.

Well, there are different philosophies about schooling male poultry... Some try to be more dominant and challenge them back. It seems to work for some people, but it hasn’t worked for me as I think I am just egging them on. Maybe a spray bottle of water would work? No challenged guinea reacts by spraying water... Think about what your criteria will be for spraying him. Maybe if he runs towards you with his wings fluffed in “male challenge pose”? Has he or the other guineas done that to you?

 

[Sydney65]

When they run really fast with wings arched upward and held abt an inch from body? The boys do that when they come out of coop. Not AT me; they walk past me then do a loop around coop as though doing recon before girls come out.
I guess he has been doing it to me, though.
He's the only one, but have seen him run up behind me but always turns away when I turn around and talk to him but I didn't notice today bc I was focusing on dogs. He did it yesterday, but I was handing out celery & associated it w/that.
So I gather that's the criteria, to stop him from sneaking up on me.
He doesn't like:
Water sprays-I used a water gun to get them to stop coming up on porch last year..need to reinstate that.
Things that are big and flap, like towels or the storm door.
When we make like a bear- arms out, loud noise. That would probably be the easiest since carrying around a towel or water gun isn't always practical.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

When they run really fast with wings arched upward and held abt an inch from body? The boys do that when they come out of coop. Not AT me; they walk past me then do a loop around coop as though doing recon before girls come out.
I guess he has been doing it to me, though.
He's the only one, but have seen him run up behind me but always turns away when I turn around and talk to him but I didn't notice today bc I was focusing on dogs. He did it yesterday, but I was handing out celery & associated it w/that.
So I gather that's the criteria, to stop him from sneaking up on me.
He doesn't like:
Water sprays-I used a water gun to get them to stop coming up on porch last year..need to reinstate that.
Things that are big and flap, like towels or the storm door.
When we make like a bear- arms out, loud noise. That would probably be the easiest since carrying around a towel or water gun isn't always practical.

Yes, that’s the cock’s challenge pose! If he’s been doing that to you plus sneaking behind you, then those are really pretty rooster like behaviors. Roosters that are afraid of people will sneak up and attack from behind because they are too scared to directly challenge. That’s one reason that I don’t try to “dominate “ my roosters; if they want to challenge me, then I want them to do it from the front and not sneak behind me and spud my calf! Rooster keepers have gotten serious injuries from a puncture wound from the spur or from feet and spur to the face (usually when bending down). So, keep your safety in mind and try not to squat or turn your back on him until you’ve gotten him over this. It will probably be pretty unpleasant for you to school him, but remember that you are saving their lives when you change human aggressive behavior. Always wear protective clothes, like jeans, boots, and long sleeves when you visit him for awhile. Consider whether you need safety glasses. I wear them when grabbing roosters from the coop because they are face height on their roosts. Practice walking and moving in a calm but confident manner. When you walk towards your guys, you should act like you will walk right through them if they don’t move. If PJ responds to this by moving towards you instead of away, immediately do your snap or spray while confidently continuing to walk through his space. You should know you are making progress when he immediately turns away as you make this confident move towards him. Keep an eye for the sneak attack as you walk by, or even snap preemptively as he passes behind your line of sight.

It sounds like PJ has been giving you warning signs for a while. You should do your aversive behavior at the beginning of the aggression; don’t wait for him to build up steam. I’m concerned that your bear/arms out pose will be interpreted as a guinea-like puffed threat display and could escalate the behavior. If you can swing the water bottle or water gun for awhile, I’d try that. Hopefully you will quickly convince him that challenging you is a bad idea, and you won’t have to do this for too long. If the water gun is impractical, I’d try the towel snap. When you start seeing him sneaking behind you, go ahead and spray or snap in his direction. I wouldn’t say much, stare at him, or otherwise pay much attention to him so you aren’t egging him on. I would generally ignore him for a few weeks so he stops focusing on you so much, but do keep one eye open for his sneak attack! He may only be challenging you as his leader, so you’ll need to see if other people also need to be armed for guinea with a water bottle. Keep us informed and I hope this works!

 

[Sydney65]

Yes, that’s the cock’s challenge pose! If he’s been doing that to you plus sneaking behind you, then those are really pretty rooster like behaviors. Roosters that are afraid of people will sneak up and attack from behind because they are too scared to directly challenge. That’s one reason that I don’t try to “dominate “ my roosters; if they want to challenge me, then I want them to do it from the front and not sneak behind me and spud my calf! Rooster keepers have gotten serious injuries from a puncture wound from the spur or from feet and spur to the face (usually when bending down). So, keep your safety in mind and try not to squat or turn your back on him until you’ve gotten him over this. It will probably be pretty unpleasant for you to school him, but remember that you are saving their lives when you change human aggressive behavior. Always wear protective clothes, like jeans, boots, and long sleeves when you visit him for awhile. Consider whether you need safety glasses. I wear them when grabbing roosters from the coop because they are face height on their roosts. Practice walking and moving in a calm but confident manner. When you walk towards your guys, you should act like you will walk right through them if they don’t move. If PJ responds to this by moving towards you instead of away, immediately do your snap or spray while confidently continuing to walk through his space. You should know you are making progress when he immediately turns away as you make this confident move towards him. Keep an eye for the sneak attack as you walk by, or even snap preemptively as he passes behind your line of sight.

It sounds like PJ has been giving you warning signs for a while. You should do your aversive behavior at the beginning of the aggression; don’t wait for him to build up steam. I’m concerned that your bear/arms out pose will be interpreted as a guinea-like puffed threat display and could escalate the behavior. If you can swing the water bottle or water gun for awhile, I’d try that. Hopefully you will quickly convince him that challenging you is a bad idea, and you won’t have to do this for too long. If the water gun is impractical, I’d try the towel snap. When you start seeing him sneaking behind you, go ahead and spray or snap in his direction. I wouldn’t say much, stare at him, or otherwise pay much attention to him so you aren’t egging him on. I would generally ignore him for a few weeks so he stops focusing on you so much, but do keep one eye open for his sneak attack! He may only be challenging you as his leader, so you’ll need to see if other people also need to be armed for guinea with a water bottle. Keep us informed and I hope this works!

It just occurred to me that after taking a break, I went out and tossed a towel around him, bundled him up and proceeded to mess with his feet. I don't usually use a towel, but after that, figured a bit of caution was warranted. So maybe I've started his behavioral therapy already...

 

[My2butterflies]

I find it so surprising for a guinea to behave that way. You mention a conversation with @R2elk. I’m not sure if that was a private or public conversation but I either missed it or don’t remember.
Is bonding considered “bad” like it is with male turkeys?

 

[Sydney65]

I find it so surprising for a guinea to behave that way. You mention a conversation with @R2elk. I’m not sure if that was a private or public conversation but I either missed it or don’t remember.
Is bonding considered “bad” like it is with male turkeys?

No, it wasn't private. I drove him to distraction bc I spent so much time w/them,handled them, etc. He feels that doing so causes the bird to imprint, thus thinking I'm another guinea, leading up to the bird attacking, & then ppl no longer wanting the bird & culling it.
It still seems like in that case, it would have happened last year. But digging through old threads, I read a case where the same happened but the issue was that there was only one male, in his first yr.. The response the poster received was "congratulations, you're his new sparing partner."
Given PJ has never bothered fighting the standard sized goons, I can see where a person could be seen as more of a challenge.
It's still been running through my head all night-"be un-guinea-like."..I had to take my glasses back twice bc the antiglare kept coming off. The second time I told them to leave it off, and they talked me into free transitional lenses. So now when I go outside - mb I look like a goon?
Anyway, my understanding is bonding w/either gender causes issues, bc they aren't domesticated. - and now I will never own a turkey. As for "bonding" - I'm the only person providing their care, and obviously I do get enjoyment from it. But - we'll be nipping this in the bud before he gets braver, or he'll be restrained. As I said, it didn't hurt, but I can't have him going after one of the grans.