Desperate for others opinion on my run of chicken deaths - long post

[loftygoals]

Hello All, Just a bit of background. Newish chicken keeper. I am a small animal veterinarian, by no means a chicken expert but trying to learn. I currently have 8 three month old pullets and 7 adult chickens aging in range from 1 year old to 2.5 years old. I also have 4 ducks. I lost a 2 year old easter egger to fatty liver in April. I was feeding very little treats containing fat (some sunflower seeds) and a commercial layer with access to pasture, mainly greens as treats. That was Sylvia and I nursed her along for about 6 months as she was "off" for awhile. I was draining fluid from her abdomen every 2 to 3 months. I thought she would have peritonitis. Necropsy at Washington state avian lab confirmed fatty liver.

Last week my favorite chicken, my love, a buff orpington, Daffodil was suddenly ill. Totally normal the day before other than coming off broody 4 days previous to this. She was lethargic, fluffed, didn't want to eat. I nursed her for 3 days (chicken hospital, yogurt, herbs, scrambled eggs, force feeding if necessary) until she wasn't walking, just cooing at me and looking like she wanted to go. I had to euthanize her myself (by injection, like I do with dogs and cats). I cried so hard. I love all of my chickens but she was my lap chicken. Necropsy diagnosed ovarian cancer with metastasis to many organs.

2 days later I found my silver laced wyandotte dead in the run. Iris had been "off" for 3 to 4 months. I noticed she was not eating as much and generally lethargic. I quarantined her and watched her. She was passing egg yolk type feces. I tapped her abdomen and removed straw colored fluid. I treated her with pain medicine (meloxicam) if she seemed uncomfortable. I should also say I did bumblefoot surgery on her twice, once last year and once in May. She would rally and act fine. Then she would lay an egg and the cycle would repeat. She seemed to be rallying again and then I found her dead. More tears. I felt so bad. Necropsy diagnosed Ovarian cancer with metastasis to many organs.

I feel like a failure and now every chicken that looks at me sidewase sends me into a panic. I am admittedly and (and not ashamed of it) very attached to all my animals, including my chickens and ducks. (I also lost a duck to ovarian cancer in January, only 1 year old). I spend hours each day with these guys. Their coop and run (which they are only in at night, free range the rest of the time) is nicer than the house I live in!

Questions for the experts and long time chicken owners:
1. What am I doing wrong? Is this what happens to chickens bred to be good layers?
2. Why aren't my chickens living out their lives past 2.5 years of age. I am fine having a bunch of old non laying ladies around. I am a frickin vegetarian for goodness sake and vegan before my chickens, now I eat their eggs!
3. How long do most of everyone's chickens live? I follow several blogs and they have chickens that live 7. 8, 9 years.

Thanks for listening to this long and emotional post. I am depressed and hopeless right now.
Thank you again.

 

[coach723]

I'm so sorry! Sometimes we have a run of bad things, totally unrelated to each other, and it can be hard.

1. What am I doing wrong? Is this what happens to chickens bred to be good layers?

I don't think you are doing anything wrong, and yes it happens. You have no control over genetics and modern chickens are generally bred for lots of eggs, or for rapid growth for meat. And that comes with problems.

2. Why aren't my chickens living out their lives past 2.5 years of age. I am fine having a bunch of old non laying ladies around. I am a frickin vegetarian for goodness sake and vegan before my chickens, now I eat their eggs!

It is really common for birds past the age of two to develop reproductive problems. If you think about it, if you just for the sake of argument say that a human ovulates 12 times a year. If a chicken lays one egg a day, that is 365 ovulations a year, so a 2 year old chicken has ovulated as many times as a 60 year old human. And ovarian cancers are not uncommon in laying hens.

3. How long do most of everyone's chickens live? I follow several blogs and they have chickens that live 7. 8, 9 years.

I have lost birds less than a year old, and my oldest bird is almost 9. 9 is really old, most of them I'd say I lose between 2 and 5 years, that's just rough guessing. If you get heritage bred birds, they will lay a few less eggs, but may have longer lives. Every laying hen has the potential for reproductive problems, but some are bred more for health and longevity and those ones will have a lower percentage of problems over all. Sometimes you get lucky and you get a really healthy bird that just lives a long time.
I'm so sorry, I know it's hard to lose them, but it's part of the price of having chickens. I know my birds are well cared for, and have very good lives for however long that is, and they bring me a lot of pleasure and joy, so I keep going.

 

[loftygoals]

Thank you coach 723, your words really help me. I appreciate any and all feedback.
Very thankful...

 

[sylviethecochin]

I'm sorry for your losses.

1. What am I doing wrong? Is this what happens to chickens bred to be good layers?

Yes. It sounds like you're having some abnormally bad luck, but it's pretty normal for a hatchery-bred laying bird to not live past four years of age. Most red sexlinks and production reds don't make it to two.

If you want long-lived birds, I suggest sourcing from someone who breeds birds for form, not function. Breeds like game bantams are likely to live longer.

2. Why aren't my chickens living out their lives past 2.5 years of age.

Hatcheries breed for production, not longevity.

3. How long do most of everyone's chickens live? I follow several blogs and they have chickens that live 7. 8, 9 years.

My oldest hen (standard) is five. I only really started keeping standards a few years ago, though, and she's been with me since the beginning. My oldest bantam rooster is ten and has never fathered a single chick (to my knowledge).

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Did you raise these older birds? A good or bad start can affect longevity in my opinion.

Sunflower seeds are the worse for causing internal fat. If your birds are confined I personally wouldn't use them, or use them sparingly.

How are your birds kept? Room to move and exercise is important for longevity too.

I personally don't feed a layer ration. The extra calcium is hard on birds that aren't actively laying. I like either a non medicated starter grower or an All Flock ration with a separate bowl of oyster shells for the calcium needs.

Most of my birds live 4-6 years of age. Some live longer, and some shorter. The oldest I've had is 10 years. I don't worm or vaccinate. My birds have a large range.

Sometimes birds just die. Sometimes there are multiple deaths over the course of a month or two. I generally see it more during times of stress like during season changes, or cold or hot weather.

 

[so lucky]

I'm sorry for your string of horrible luck. I think it is odd that you have had so many with the same ailment. I know nothing about ducks, but I don't think orpingtons and wyandottes are necessarily bred for high egg production, like the "production reds" and "sex-link", that type are.
I am the type that looks for external causes as well, such as origin of feed. Are you sure that the ingredients you feed have not been unnecessarily dosed in pesticides/herbicides? Farm fields around you that might be spraying stuff while you are not there to see?
Did you get all the chickens and ducks from the same hatchery, by chance? How are other chicken owners in your area doing? Are they losing a lot of livestock from cancer? You don't need to answer these questions to me, but they are just queries into other factors that may be important.
Probably part of your story is that you have the ability and skill to treat, and the means to get them autopsied. Most of us don't have that available. When we lose a chicken we don't know why, unless a raccoon got it, or something else obvious. So your losses seem to be particularly poignant and hurtful.
I'm trying to think how many chickens I lost when I first got into them. I think there are 3 little chicken graves over in the unplanted part of the garden. Maybe 4.
Don't despair. Just because you hear of a chicken that lives to 10 years, doesn't mean her 7 hatch mates lived that long. Just know that you are doing the best you can; that's all any of us can do.

 

[sylviethecochin]

but I don't think orpingtons and wyandottes are necessarily bred for high egg production, like the "production reds" and "sex-link", that type are.

Orps and Wyandottes aren't bred for ridiculously high egg production, but they're not bred for longevity either. Orps are particularly prone to things like fatty liver and internal laying. Hatcheries breed to pump out birds as fast as they can, and that has as bad an effect on chicken genetics as it does on the genetics of dogs sourced from puppy mills.

 

[Folly's place]

I'm so sorry! I'm also a small animal veterinarian, and have had chickens for over 25 years, and sometimes it's just hard.
I necropsy (nearly) every bird who dies here, unless the problem is obvious. My youngest bird with a bad reproductive problem (pus filled uterus) was five months old!!!
Nearly nobody selects for longevity in chicken breeding, and it shows. Dr. Fulton at Michigan State, who's a noted poultry expert, says that many/ most hens have issues and die by age three, a sorry state of affairs.
Hatcheries and most private breeders use one year olds as breeding stock, because it's the most economical way to do things. Having healthy birds who are two years of age or older in the breeding shed isn't common. Some of us do that, because longevity matters!
My oldest hens have been ten years of age; three birds, over many years.
Predators have been a big problem here, intermittently, and I don't keep everyone forever, so maybe more birds would have lived that long, but they were no longer here.
This year three hens just 'dropped dead', and they were two to four years of age.
You aren't doing anything wrong!
I do feed Flock Raiser rather than a layer diet, with separate oyster shell, so that the goodies they find while free ranging, and the small amounts of scratch and stuff we feed, still give them adequate proteins, etc.
Mary

 

[Shadrach]

Hello All, Just a bit of background. Newish chicken keeper. I am a small animal veterinarian, by no means a chicken expert but trying to learn. I currently have 8 three month old pullets and 7 adult chickens aging in range from 1 year old to 2.5 years old. I also have 4 ducks. I lost a 2 year old easter egger to fatty liver in April. I was feeding very little treats containing fat (some sunflower seeds) and a commercial layer with access to pasture, mainly greens as treats. That was Sylvia and I nursed her along for about 6 months as she was "off" for awhile. I was draining fluid from her abdomen every 2 to 3 months. I thought she would have peritonitis. Necropsy at Washington state avian lab confirmed fatty liver.

Last week my favorite chicken, my love, a buff orpington, Daffodil was suddenly ill. Totally normal the day before other than coming off broody 4 days previous to this. She was lethargic, fluffed, didn't want to eat. I nursed her for 3 days (chicken hospital, yogurt, herbs, scrambled eggs, force feeding if necessary) until she wasn't walking, just cooing at me and looking like she wanted to go. I had to euthanize her myself (by injection, like I do with dogs and cats). I cried so hard. I love all of my chickens but she was my lap chicken. Necropsy diagnosed ovarian cancer with metastasis to many organs.

2 days later I found my silver laced wyandotte dead in the run. Iris had been "off" for 3 to 4 months. I noticed she was not eating as much and generally lethargic. I quarantined her and watched her. She was passing egg yolk type feces. I tapped her abdomen and removed straw colored fluid. I treated her with pain medicine (meloxicam) if she seemed uncomfortable. I should also say I did bumblefoot surgery on her twice, once last year and once in May. She would rally and act fine. Then she would lay an egg and the cycle would repeat. She seemed to be rallying again and then I found her dead. More tears. I felt so bad. Necropsy diagnosed Ovarian cancer with metastasis to many organs.

I feel like a failure and now every chicken that looks at me sidewase sends me into a panic. I am admittedly and (and not ashamed of it) very attached to all my animals, including my chickens and ducks. (I also lost a duck to ovarian cancer in January, only 1 year old). I spend hours each day with these guys. Their coop and run (which they are only in at night, free range the rest of the time) is nicer than the house I live in!

Questions for the experts and long time chicken owners:
1. What am I doing wrong? Is this what happens to chickens bred to be good layers?
2. Why aren't my chickens living out their lives past 2.5 years of age. I am fine having a bunch of old non laying ladies around. I am a frickin vegetarian for goodness sake and vegan before my chickens, now I eat their eggs!
3. How long do most of everyone's chickens live? I follow several blogs and they have chickens that live 7. 8, 9 years.

Thanks for listening to this long and emotional post. I am depressed and hopeless right now.
Thank you again.

Yep, it's hard when you get attached to them.
I think this is far more common than people may think and I would put serious money on a bet that it's poor genetics.
Where did you get your chickens?
I did a bit of a poll at my chicken club a while ago. It's difficult to be accurate because we all free range and predation impacts the numbers. But, those that don't die due to predation seem to live to 9 old years on average.
I would have to dig out the numbers, but these were figures from over 50 chickens.
Most I know here keep pairs, trios or quads.
Here's the thing. Not one of these chickens came from a hatchery, or farm store and those that are not the local breeds, came from specialized breeders often out of the country.

 

[janiedoe]

I am so sorry! I have lost a few hens (& a couple of roosters) myself and it is always discouraging.
Hang in there. You sound like a wonderful chicken owner and there are so many chickens out there to love.
Again I'm sorry for the loss of your hens.