Desperate for others opinion on my run of chicken deaths - long post

[ChickNanny13]

 

[microchick]

I bought chicks from a NPIP breeder who didn't vaccinate for Marek's but bred for resistance. They turned out not to be resistant to the strain of MD we have around us. I lost a LOT of birds.

Then I bought some hatching eggs, bantam/barnyard crosses from an Amish neighbor and hatched them in a Brinsea incubator. I lost one bird to suspected Marek's and recently had the original flock survivors butchered as I couldn't breed any birds from them that would survive longer than 2 years. The Amish birds reproduce like rabbits, lay like machines and appear to be hardy birds.

Point being breeding for breed perfection is fun but lots of bad goes along with the good.

Plus there is no guarantee that birds from a breeder are going to be any better than feeds birds.

It's luck of the draw but I suggest you try barnyard crosses and see if your luck changes.

Thank you for starting this interesting thread and thank you for treating chickens in your practice.

 

[locoyosh]

Our chickens don't live long either. We started with 8 chickens 4 years ago and only 2 of them are still alive. We lost one to a predator and the rest just died of natural causes. Unfortunately, we don't know their causes of death. I thought I read somewhere that they're supposed to live 6-12 years so we were surprised to have so many die in under 4 years. But it makes sense that they're being bred for production and not longevity and that's why they don't live long. I'm sorry about the loss of your birds. You're not alone!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Firsts of all. I don't think I can express in words how much each and every post has helped me...I would like to address some of the questions. But first...I was feeding an all flock and the "chicken experts" (veterinary) told me not to do that. Well, I am going back to an all flock vs. my current feed which is an organic layer pellet as well as scratch and peck layer. Grit and oyster shell and fresh, clean water always available.
1. The group that has died are all from a 2 separate feed stores.
2. My 1 year olds are from My Pet Chicken as well as my 3 month olds.
3. I have queried my chicken owning friends, and they have mostly predator problems and some sudden death, but not like my ratio.
4. I hardly ever gave scratch or sunflower seeds, only minimally and in the winter but after fatty liver in Sylvia I stopped all sunflower and only offer greens, some cooling fruits in the summer (no spinach and no citrus).
5. Our water is from a well that is the same as our drinking water and is tested biannually (for whatever that is worth).
6. No power lines nearby or cell towers (not nearby).
So what I am hearing is what I have been thinking. These chickens are bred for making eggs, not living long. I would prefer chickens that live long and make a few eggs for my family, friends, and occasional bartering.

What I am hearing is to NOT buy from commercial hatcheries...but where do I get my chickens from? The downside from non hatcheries is not knowing their sex.

And I have raised all of these chicks from one day old. They live in my house until I can't stand the dust and then they have a special predator proof patio enclosure until their "look don't touch" period in with the adults.

Thank you all so very much.

Most of my birds are from My Pet Chicken. Many live long lives. I have had good luck with their stock.

 

[Shadrach]

One way that will improve the chances of getting a chicken with better genetics is to avoid the popular egg laying breeds.
Also, not all countries are caught up in the breeder to hatchery to customer loop with an eye on profit .
I would seriously consider looking outside the USA should you be serious regarding longevity.
If I were to start again I would be looking for adult pairs, preferably with a lineage history.
Some quality breeders will supply this just as you might expect when buying a prize bull or pig.

The Marans here came from a small specialist breeder in France. They won't ship chicks, or adults, but they will ship eggs and it was possible some time ago to go and view a breeding pair with the intention to purchase.
The two eldest here are from this breeder and they are 9 and 8 years old and still lay the occasional egg. Nobody seems to know the provenance of the bantams here but the eldest died a few weeks ago at at least 9 years old, possible a bit older. All the chickens here are from these two breeds.
Another contentious issue is what you should be feeding your chickens. In general commercially produced feed is for commercial hens. It will keep them alive and provide the correct nutriant for maximum egg quality and production. I do provide commercial feed here but because they free range and the quality of the forage is generally decent, they get a varied diet and just like with humans this has a major impact on their health.
I feed fish and meat as treats, as well as fruit, nuts, a small amount of kitchen scraps.
Many here do not provide any commercial feed and allow their chickens to free range and forage, supplementing their diet with a variety of food ranging from kitchen scraps to carefully researched feed formulas often handed down from those who bred for cock fighting.
Keeping a closed flock is also advisable.
A lot is going to depend on how serious you are about chicken keeping. I don't believe it would matter very much to me what breed I ended up with should I start again. They all have the ability to enchant and the cross breeds I now have here are as lovable as any so called pure breeds.

 

[Kathy Golla]

One way that will improve the chances of getting a chicken with better genetics is to avoid the popular egg laying breeds.
Also, not all countries are caught up in the breeder to hatchery to customer loop with an eye on profit .
I would seriously consider looking outside the USA should you be serious regarding longevity.
If I were to start again I would be looking for adult pairs, preferably with a lineage history.
Some quality breeders will supply this just as you might expect when buying a prize bull or pig.

The Marans here came from a small specialist breeder in France. They won't ship chicks, or adults, but they will ship eggs and it was possible some time ago to go and view a breeding pair with the intention to purchase.
The two eldest here are from this breeder and they are 9 and 8 years old and still lay the occasional egg. Nobody seems to know the provenance of the bantams here but the eldest died a few weeks ago at at least 9 years old, possible a bit older. All the chickens here are from these two breeds.
Another contentious issue is what you should be feeding your chickens. In general commercially produced feed is for commercial hens. It will keep them alive and provide the correct nutriant for maximum egg quality and production. I do provide commercial feed here but because they free range and the quality of the forage is generally decent, they get a varied diet and just like with humans this has a major impact on their health.
I feed fish and meat as treats, as well as fruit, nuts, a small amount of kitchen scraps.
Many here do not provide any commercial feed and allow their chickens to free range and forage, supplementing their diet with a variety of food ranging from kitchen scraps to carefully researched feed formulas often handed down from those who bred for cock fighting.
Keeping a closed flock is also advisable.
A lot is going to depend on how serious you are about chicken keeping. I don't believe it would matter very much to me what breed I ended up with should I start again. They all have the ability to enchant and the cross breeds I now have here are as lovable as any so called pure breeds.

 

[loftygoals]

So much good information. One question I have is on feed. Do I hear that the "scratch and peck" type feeds are not good because they will pick out what they like? I make this type of food a mash so they eat all of it.

I also hear what everyone is saying about "barnyard mixes" vs. purebred birds. It really is confusing, to know what type of birds to buy. I could honestly care less about the breed. They all provide me with so much enrichment every day and sometimes make it worth my reason to get up in the morning. And they provide an amazing source of food. I just want to honor that by giving them a really good life, and hopefully a long life.

Even though I am a vegetarian (32 years) I still appreciate and respect people that eat animal products that are humanely raised and locally sourced. I can't eat my own chickens but I appreciate that people here raise and butcher their own chickens. A great life and only one bad day for them! And maybe not bad because their life provides nourishment for others.

I would, again, like to express my appreciation for the depth of information and emotion expressed by you all. It really has helped me.

 

[Folly's place]

I think there are two possible reasons for 'barnyard mixes' maybe (???) doing better: first, they might show some hybrid vigor, and second, their parents may also be older birds.
I also agree that some of the uncommon breeds may do better. A breeder of Cubalya bantams told me that birds of his breed often live into their teens! I have no actual information about that.
Shadrach apparently has an easier time getting birds though the EU. Importing birds or hatching eggs is not easy into the USA!
Mary

 

[AmyJane725]

Hey there,

So sorry for your losses. My chickens are beloved pets, so I totally get where you're coming from. I'll be devastated when something happens to mine eventually, even if it's old age.

Now, I'm just throwing this out there, but since you're a vet you'd have much easier access than the rest of us, so you might use that to your advantage. Hens that have chronic reproductive problems can be given hormone implants to stop they from laying eggs. Might this be a useful option for the rest of your girls? I'd have mine spayed all together if it wasn't so dangerous for them (and bank-breaking for me). I think the implants are the next best thing. You won't have eggs anymore, but if they're not laying they can't lay internally or anything either I don't think. I don't know if it would help with reproductive tract infections. Maybe you could answer that for me actually?

 

[Folly's place]

Hormone implants won't help prevent cancer, and might increase the risk for some types of cancer. There's likely no actual data on improved longevity or health in hens, as this is so totally off label!
It's just tough to loose birds who aren't really old!
Mary