Deworming experience from start to finish.

[tgooberbutt]

Valbazen got delivered today. Also found an NIH-funded study on In Vitro (in a petri dish) Albendazole effects on tape worms:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3019376/


FYI: Under the "Discussion" section, in the second paragraph - it mentions that Albendazole is used in conjunction with Praziquantel to treat tape worms in humans.

I don't like the the test was in vitro, I imagine lots of stuff changes inside a chicken's intestine....but the dosages they set out, and the paralysis and mortality times are here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3019376/table/T0001/

And another paper I pulled up:

Csiko, G. Y., Banhidi, G. Y., Semjen, G., Laczay, P., Sandor, G. V., Lehel, J., & Fekete, J. (1996). Metabolism and pharmacokinetics of albendazole after oral administration to chickens. Journal of veterinary pharmacology and therapeutics, 19(4), 322-325.

Albendazole seems to get absorbed and metabolized in chickens faster in chickens than in other animals. At a 10mg/kg dose, on average, the drug and its byproducts could not be found in the blood anymore after about 24hrs...Max concentration of the drug and byproducts were in the blood after ~3-4 hours.....

***
Update on the fecal float....I'm either pretty bad at this, or this microscope sucks. I have access to a very good microscope, so I'm going to take my slides there. On first run, I can see bundles of cells....my home microscope is just too fuzzy to make a good comparison to the pictures in vet. diagnostic books.

As another resource, there are instructions on how to do a fecal float here:
http://www.rvc.ac.uk/review/Parasitology/Flotation/Simple_flotation/Purpose.htm

Microscope pictures of what common Chicken parasite eggs look like (very similar to what the Foryet book has):
http://www.rvc.ac.uk/review/Parasitology/poultrEggs/Common.htm

Raillietina - tapeworms.... that's the closest thing to the cell bundles that I see given the like of 'hooks' from the pict.

***

 

[tgooberbutt]

PS - if anyone wants pdfs of these research reports or any other report that seems to be relevant to the de-worming experience, just PM me. I have access to a university's electronic journal library.

 

[tgooberbutt]

Okay...first dose of Valbazen today. Phineas is about a 5# chicken (I estimated, she would have none of this standing-still on a scale thing)...

Valabazen says on the label it's 113.6mg/mL

5#= 2.267kg. @ 30mg/kg =~68mg

68mg of Albendazole @ 113mg/mL = 0.6mL of Valbazen.

I used a small syringe (also from the order from Jeffers, where I got the Valbazen from), with the sharp, metal tip cut off, and just dripped the medication onto her tongue and she swallowed it in about three small, consecutive doses. She wouldn't let me pull her waddles down to open her mouth

Dawg53's estimates of 1/2cc was pretty close to the does I gave Phineas. But I did not fast Phineas before giving her the medicine. The Tucker & Yazwinski article @cowcreekgeek linked ran trials where the chickens had free access to food before and during treatment.

Dawg53 - if you're reading this, is there any particular reason why you recommend they fast before taking Albendazole? All I can find about food and Albedazole is on humans, and those recommendations are to actually take the medication with oily foods to promote absorption. I haven't found anything either way on Albedazole and chickens though.

So....I'll check Phineas' poop tonight, and float a slide from tonight's poop....supposedly the proglottids are more prevalent in evening poop, after a day of eating and nutrition...And lastly, an order of fish fluke 100% praziquantel is on order....

 

[dawg53]

Withholding feed weakens the worms, there arnt nutrients for them to absorb. You can withhold feed up to 48 hours if you wish. However when you go to feed your chickens, feed them gradually so they dont gorge the feed, possibly causing an impacted crop.

 

[tls_ranch]

Has anyone used this product for tapeworms in chickens?http://www.twincitypoultrysupplies....in_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=893

I've used zimectrin gold paste (horse wormer) for tapeworms. It has worked very well for tape worms, but is a bit expensive and hard to dose for smaller chickens. This product is for pigeons but I think for large chickens maybe 2 pills per bird?


PS. I tried Valbazen several times and saw no effect on the tapeworms.

 

[dawg53]

Has anyone used this product for tapeworms in chickens?http://www.twincitypoultrysupplies....in_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=893

I've used zimectrin gold paste (horse wormer) for tapeworms. It has worked very well for tape worms, but is a bit expensive and hard to dose for smaller chickens. This product is for pigeons but I think for large chickens maybe 2 pills per bird?


PS. I tried Valbazen several times and saw no effect on the tapeworms.

I havnt used the product in your link but have used zimectrin gold for tapes. It works great against tapes. A small "pea" size dose on a piece of bread given to each small chicken is the best way to administer the product. Ensure you keep them seperated and give the bread individually to each bird. I havnt found zimectrin gold to be expensive...as compared to a bottle of valbazen or any other wormer for that matter. Check out this price for z-gold:
http://www.jefferspet.com/zimecterin-gold/camid/EQU/cp/M0-Z2/

 

[tgooberbutt]

Has anyone used this product for tapeworms in chickens?http://www.twincitypoultrysupplies....in_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=893

I've used zimectrin gold paste (horse wormer) for tapeworms. It has worked very well for tape worms, but is a bit expensive and hard to dose for smaller chickens. This product is for pigeons but I think for large chickens maybe 2 pills per bird?


PS. I tried Valbazen several times and saw no effect on the tapeworms.

The description says it's "Iver- mectin 0.1 mg and Praziquantel 7.5 mg" per tablet.
The Ivermectin does not affect tapeworms, so it's the Praziquantel that's doing the work on the tapeworms...
The dosage information I've found for Praziquantel is between 6mg/kg (vet parisitology book), and 10mg/kg on a clinical trial. See Post #6 of this thread for the sources.
If you're worried about cost, cowcreekgeek found two eBay auctions that sell pure Praziquantel (for fish) (Post #8). I just ordered a jar from Amazon for about $20.

Dawg53 - for the zimectrin gold, do you just dose once? The vet book I have says to dose again after 10-14days, but in my opinion its original dosage amount was too low (6mg/kg), and the research article I found stopped the experiment at 20 days...

 

[tgooberbutt]

Okay - fresh poop from Phineas. This was about 5 hrs after her Valbazen. The tapeworm proglottids "aka creepy crawlies), are those sticky taupe things...
Only one of them moved, the rest were not moving. And their color was several shades darker than the clearish milky-white that I saw last time. I don't know what that means.
I didn't do a fecal float on this, but rather, just took one of the proglottids, put it on a slide and smooshed it with a slipcover. I can see round eggs in them, but this microscope is too crappy to differentiate anything. I'll run everything I have under a better microscope sometime early next week and hopefully post picts of the outcome.

Good news is, Phineas does not seem to be impacted as she actually did poop this out, and it's decently large too.

 

[dawg53]

You worm twice with z-gold, 10 days after the initial dosing...your vet book is correct. I use a "pea" size amount of the paste, that takes care of the tapes.
If you're still seeing segments in the feces, moving or not, you havnt killed the tape(s.) Sometimes the whole tapeworm(s) will be excreted. Some will appear flat and broken up, some will be stringy...like jellyfish tentacles. But most of the time they are absorbed as protein in the digestive tract and you dont see any in feces.
Another product you can use is Equimax. It has a higher percentage of praziquantel, about 14% vs 7.75% z- gold. Dosage may be less for chickens though. I've never used equimax, never had to since the valbazen and/or z-gold were very successful.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Okay - fresh poop from Phineas. This was about 5 hrs after her Valbazen. The tapeworm proglottids "aka creepy crawlies), are those sticky taupe things...
Only one of them moved, the rest were not moving. And their color was several shades darker than the clearish milky-white that I saw last time. I don't know what that means.
I didn't do a fecal float on this, but rather, just took one of the proglottids, put it on a slide and smooshed it with a slipcover. I can see round eggs in them, but this microscope is too crappy to differentiate anything. I'll run everything I have under a better microscope sometime early next week and hopefully post picts of the outcome.

Good news is, Phineas does not seem to be impacted as she actually did poop this out, and it's decently large too.

No microscope required to see evidence of 'em now ~'-)

My efforts to establish the minimums req'd aren't probably so wise as providing the slightly elevated dosages, because the amounts are still easily below any level that could prove harmful (save for killin' too many too quickly, which you haven't ~'-)

Ask Dawg for the follow-up, as I've seen it range in these studies from seven to fourteen days ... you wanna be sure 'n kill 'em all.

To more easily find what you're lookin' for, such as reports/studies that are 'in chicken' rather than dish? You can specify which website(s) google searches (i.e. site:.edu or site:nih.gov), which spares you from siftin' through many pages of useless results.

In vitro Effects of Albendazole on Raillietina echinobothrida, the Cestode of Chicken, Gallus domesticus
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3019376/

... provides references, which lead to ...

9. Saeed AM. Efficacy of albendazole against experimental Raillietina tetragona infection in chickens. Res J Pharmacol. 2007;1:5–8.

... which can then be googled, to find ...

http://www.medwelljournals.com/abstract/?doi=rjpharm.2007.5.8

http://docsdrive.com/pdfs/medwelljournals/rjpharm/2007/5-8.pdf