Diary & Notes ~ Air Cell Detatched SHIPPED Chicken Eggs for incubation and hatching

[casportpony]

I also lost four peachicks to too high humidity during incubation, but too high for them was just 47% in the RCOM. When I opened the eggs they were filled with fluid. Interestingly , the eggs to the far left and far right of the RCOM seem like they're more susceptible to this. Haven't done enough hatching with it, so it could be a fluke. A few more hatches and I'll have better data.

-Kathy

 

[sumi]

I've started moving the eggs in my Brinsea around, just in case... Though so far I've had no problems with it.

 

[casportpony]

I've thought about moving them around, that probably would help.

-Kathy

 

[rbaker0345]

There are a number of factors which effect the hatchability of eggs and the water loss. First of all, those silkie eggs look to be about on par for shipped silkie eggs, you probably didn't do anything wrong. Silkie eggs seem to take shipping harder than other breeds. I've hatched silkies from eggs that look like that.

Here's an article that helped me:
DEFINITION
•
Egg water loss is the amount of water that is lost by diffusion through pores in the eggshell during the incubation process.

• The rate of egg water loss is controlled by the humidity of the incubator and the conductance (porosity) of the eggshell.
OBJECTIVES / DISCUSSION
•
To determine the correct humidity for maximum hatchability and poult quality by measuring the egg water loss.

• Typically a turkey egg will lose between 11 – 12% of its fresh egg weight through water loss by the 25th day of incubation.

• Too much water loss and the egg will become desiccated and too little water loss will result in too small an air cell at hatch, which will stop the embryo fully inflating its lungs.

• Low incubator humidity will increase egg weight (water) loss and high incubator humidity will decrease egg weight loss.

• The weight loss targets for turkey eggs depend on the age of the breeder flock, see Table 1 below:
Table 1
Flock Age (wks)



Egg Weight Loss Target


1 – 3



9 - 10 %


4 – 15



11 – 12 %


> 16



13 – 14 %

 

[rbaker0345]

Heres a really long article but I like it a lot:

Humidity

During the incubation or setting period, eggs should lose 11 to 12% of their weight (another 3 to 4% in the hatcher, after day 18), due mainly to a loss of moisture. The amount of moisture (humidity) in the incubator controls the rate of evaporation from the egg. The evaporation rate is also related to temperature, air speed, shell thickness, and size of eggs; the smaller the eggs, the greater percentage of moisture loss. Too great a moisture loss from the egg in the early stage of incubation will cause the embryo to adhere to the shell, causing death. Insufficient evaporation may cause death from lack of oxygen because of a small air cell, since just prior to pipping the shell, the embryo pips into the air cell and starts to breath air. The best guides to the correct amount of humidity in an incubator is the weight loss and the size and enlargement of the air cell during incubation, or the position at which the chick pips the shell. The degree of enlargement of the air cell should be determined by candling several eggs and estimating the averagee evaporation.
The amount of moisture in an incubator may be referred to as "relative humidity", which is a percentage of the moisture in the air at any given temperature. This can be measured by a wet-bulb thermometer. The relationship between dry-bulb air temperature, wet-bulb readings and relative humidity is shown in Table 1.
A wet-bulb reading is based on air movement, and for this reason, a wet-bulb thermometer cannot be used to determine the amount of humidity in a still-air incubator. The relative humidity for small incubators is usually stated as 60%. Other inexpensive but less accurate equipment is available to measure relative humidity. A level water pan on the floor of the incubator under the eggs during the entire incubation period will generally supply sufficient moisture to give good hatching results, provided the moisture content of the air in the environment is neither too high or too low. Percent egg weight loss during the setting period can act as a guide to the correct humidity. This can be done by weighing some eggs at the start of incubation and the same eggs again on the 7th and 18th day, and calculating the loss that occurred (write the weight on the shell with a pencil). Chicken eggs should lose approximately 4.5% and 11.5% during the first 7 and the first 18 days of incubation respectively.
Eggshells thicker than 0.34 mm are too thick and humidity should be reduced to increase moisture loss. Below 0.31 mm is too thin. Normal would be 0.33 to 0.34 mm at the beginning of production. Shell thickness decreases with age of breeder hen with 0.31 mm normal at 60 weeks.
In large incubators, the temperature, air speed and humidity are intimately related, and the manufacturer’s instructions should be followed closely. Better hatching results may be obtained if the temperature is lowered and the humidity raised at hatching time (only if separate hatching compartments are available). Lowering the air temperature will provide an additional increase in relative humidity to keep shell membranes moist during the hatching process.

TABLE 1. PERCENT RELATIVE HUMIDITY AT DIFFERENT WET-BULB READINGS
Wet-bulb Reading Relative Humidity (%) at Air Temperature of
(BC)

37.2BC %

37.8BC %
32.2

70

68
31.7

67

65
31.1

65

63
30.6

62

60
30.0

59

57
29.4

56

54
28.9

53

51
28.3

51

48
27.8

48

46
27.2

45

43
26.7

43

41
Incorrect humidity may be due to a number of factors, the more important of which are listed below:
1. High environmental humidity in tropical countries.
2. A wet-bulb thermometer reading incorrectly. Remove the wick to determine whether the thermometer is reading the same as the dry-bulb thermometer.
3. Dust and dirt on the wet-bulb wick. Change wicks often and use only distilled water in the reservoir.
4. In small incubators with humidity supplied by water pan evaporation, ensure that there is always an adequate amount of water in the pan, as the rate of evaporation is dependent on the humidity in the room. The lower the humidity in the room, the higher the evaporation and vice versa. During hatching fluff settles on the surface of the water producing a film that causes a reduction in the rate of water evaporation necessary for optimum hatchability. Clean the water pan daily and replace with clean, lukewarm water.
5. Ventilating an incubator to control temperature will lower humidity in a dry environment unless automatic humidifiers are being used in the incubator room.
6. If airflow in incubators is not uniform humidity may be different from bottom to top or side to side.
Ventilation

The free movement of oxygen, carbon dioxide and water vapor through the pores of the shell is important, since the developing embryo must be able to take in a constant supply of oxygen and release carbon dioxide and moisture. Oxygen content of 21% (present in air at sea level) and a carbon dioxide content not exceeding 0.5% in the air are considered optimum for good hatching results. Room temperature, room humidity, the number of eggs set, the period of incubation, and the air movement in the incubator all influence ventilation requirements. Ventilation problems are not the same in small incubators as they are in large incubators, where a large number of eggs are set in a very small space.
During the early part of the incubation period, ventilation in small incubators may be held to a minimum. However, during the hatching period additional ventilation must be supplied to reduce the carbon dioxide in the incubator. It is advisable not to increased ventilation until half of the hatch has been completed, since ventilating too soon will reduce the humidity. In large incubators, the manufacturer's directions should be followed, however, ventilating recommendations may not be applicable to every locality and every room condition.
If ventilation is used to control either temperature or humidity in the incubator, the control of the same factors in the incubator room are important. At a room temperature below 18 C, ventilating an incubator will reduce both temperature and humidity. In a room with high humidity, (tropical countries) the primary concern is to maintain the correct temperature.
The main ventilation consideration may be summarized as follows:
1. Ventilation is more important in large incubators than in small incubators.
2. The amount of ventilation required may be altered by atmospheric conditions.
3. Ventilation is very important in any incubator at hatching time. Insufficient ventilation may result in embryo or chick death.
4. Ventilation in excess of the recommended amount may be applied to reduce temperature or humidity.
5. The appearance of chicks panting in a hatcher at normal temperature is an indication of a rise in the carbon dioxide content of the hatcher air. Under such conditions chicks must breathe faster to obtain the required amount of oxygen and to eliminate the exceses carbon dioxide. If excessive panting occurs, increase the airflow in the hatcher.
Position and Turning of Eggs

In small incubators, the eggs are maintained in a horizontal position during the entire incubation period. In large incubators eggs should be placed in a vertical position, large end up, during the hatching period. In small incubators, the eggs are moved when turned, while in large incubators they remain in a stationary position on the incubator tray and the egg tray is turned through an angle of not less than 90 in opposite directions with each turning. The objective is the same in both types of incubators; namely, to prevent the embryo from sticking to the shell membranes. Turning also ensures a complete contact of the embryonic membranes with the food material in the egg, especially in early stages of incubation.
In small incubators, the eggs should be turned at least four times daily. It is advisable to leave some space on the tray to allow for moving the eggs forward a 1/2 turn on one turn and back a 1/2 turn on the next, thus making sure that all the eggs move. Eggs should not be turned in a complete circle, as this has a tendency to rupture the allantois sac with resultant embryonic mortality. Wash hands carefully before turning eggs to avoid bacterial contamination of the shell. In large incubators, the trays are usually turned hourly with all the egg trays moving at one time. For good hatchability, eggs should be turned to a position at least 45 from vertical, then reversed in the opposite direction to a similar position. In the most recent models of incubators, eggs are turned through an arc of 150 and in a few models they are turned as far as 180 . The introduction of these newer methods of turning eggs has been an important aspect in improving hatchability. Eggs should not be turned in either large or small incubators during the hatching period. The greatest benefit from turning eggs is during the first week in incubation.
Other Factors Affecting Incubation

Egg Selection

Poor quality hatching eggs do not hatch as well as eggs of good quality. The term "quality" refers to the condition outside the shell, the condition of the shell itself and that of the contents. Eggs with inferior characteristics, as discussed in "Selection and Care of Hatching Eggs," should not be set.
Sanitation

Eggs used for hatching should be clean and stored in clean containers in a sanitary egg holding room. Eggs contaminated with bacterial organisms usually do not hatch well and this poor quality is reflected in the chicks that do hatch.
Egg Handling

Rough handling of hatching eggs before they are set will increase the number of dead embryos, with mortality occurring between the 4th and 13th day of incubation. Also, jarring eggs during incubation may result in the rupture of the egg shell membrane and thereby lower hatchability.
Large fluctuations in temperature and humidity during storage will have a major adverse affect on hatchability. Refer to "Selection and Care of Hatching Eggs" for proper egg storage procedure.
Toxicity

If the interior of an incubator is painted or varnished, or if the trays are varnished, the percentage of hatch will be reduced, possibly by as much as 25%. This adverse effect disappears in about 30 days, suggesting that the ill effect is eliminated by oxidation of the paint.
This problem may be overcome without any reduction in percentage of hatch if the incubator is fumigated with formaldehyde gas at the concentration recommended for proper hatchery fumigation. The gassing should be done as soon as the paint is dry and with the incubator operating at recommended temperature and humidity for incubating eggs.
Automatic Equipment

The addition of automatic equipment has eliminated many of the problems with incubators, however, such hazards may occur when automatic devices fail. During hatching all automatic devices, such as cooling coils, automatic dampers, tray turners, alarm bells, etc., should be checked at regular intervals. Electrical failure may require that automatic equipment be reset. After an incubator is purchased, it is important to know how every part operates.
Egg Candling

Candling chicken eggs on the 7th and 18th day of incubation, may be recommended for small poultry producers. Egg candling will detect infertiles and early dead germs. Therefore, problems within the hatching flock can be identified without waiting until the incubation period is completed.
Improper Fumigation

Closely follow instructions outlined in "Fumigation Procedure". Excessive and improper fumigation can result in high mortality in developing embryos.

Fumigation of Incubators

The killing of bacterial organisms by formaldehyde gas is based on the concentrations of the gas, exposure time, temperature, and humidity of the incubator. The chemicals potassium permanganate and formalin (which is 40% formaldehyde gas) have proven to be the most effective method of destroying bacterial organisms in the hatchery. To accomplish the proper release of the gas, one and one-half parts (by volume) formalin is added to one part (by weight) of potassium permanganate. This will release the formaldehyde as gas or fumigant. When the reaction is complete, a dry, brown powder will be left. If the residue is wet, not enough permanganate was used; if the residue is purple, too much permanganate was added.

Concentration

The recommended concentration for effective fumigation is 53 mL of formalin added to 36 g of potassium permanaganate per cubic metre of space to be fumigated, or 1 1/2 mL of formalin added to 1 g of potassium permanganate per cubic foot of space to be fumigated.
Caution: Never add the permanagante to the formalin. Heat is generated when the two chemicals are combined, and care should be taken. Formaldehyde gas is generated quickly. Do not allow the fumes to get into the eyes. Personnel should use a respirator or wear a mask to avoid unnecessary exposure. Ventilate the incubator room to remove fumes that escape from the incubator.
Time

It is not recommended to fumigate setters with hatching eggs in them, but if such treatment becomes necessary, embryos between 24 and 96 hours of age should not be exposed to the above concentration of formaldehyde. Hatching compartments should be fumigated after the eggs are transferred from the setter to the hatcher, again after the hatch has been taken off and before the refuse has been removed from the trays, and finally after the hatcher has been thoroughly cleaned. Do not fumigate chicks with this concentration of formaldehyde gas. Small still-air incubators should be fumigated after the chicks have been removed and prior to discarding the refuse from the tray and again after the incubator has been thoroughly cleaned.
Fumigation Procedure

1. Make sure the temperature and humidity of the incubators are at normal operating conditions.
2. Measure the inside volume of the machine in cubic feet or cubic metres (length x width x height).
3. Close the ventilators, but leave the fans on.
4. Weigh the required amount of potassium permanganate into a wide enamelware or earthenware vessel large enough to accommodate the boiling and splattering action experienced when the formalin is added. Place the vessel and the permanganate in the area to be fumigated; then add the formalin.
5. Close the door immediately and leave closed for 20 minutes.
6. After 20 minutes, open the ventilators.
7. Open the doors of the machine for five minutes, leaving the fan on to allow more of the formaldehyde gas to escape, or neutralize it with a 25% solution of ammonium hydroxide equal to one-half the amount of formalin used. The hydroxide should be thrown directly on the floor of the machine and the doors closed. The formaldehyde gas will quickly be neutralized.
Continuous Fumigation of Hatcher

The greatest increase in bacterial organisms occurs during the hatching period. These can be reduced, but not completely eliminated, by slow release of formalin in the hatcher during the last 48 hours of the hatching period.
For continuous fumigation to be effective, hatching eggs should also be fumigated at transfer time with the recommended concentration.
Place formalin in pan about 25 mm in depth, allowing 58 cm2 of pan for each cubic metre of hatcher space, or a pan about 1 in. deep, allowing 30 in2 of pan for approximately 1000 ft3 of hatcher space. Do not use permanganate. The pan should be placed in the open area of the hatcher in direct line with the airflow.
Place the pan of formalin in hatcher 48 hours prior to hatch completion. To overcome fluff deposited on the formalin, add more formalin about 24 hours before hatch is complete to increase evaporation.
If the fan stops (mechanical failure etc.) and reduces the airflow, remove the pan of formalin immediately. If hatchers are only partially full, continuous fumigation is not recommended, as a reduction in airflow will create an excessive build up of formalin in the hatcher.
Effects of Fumigation

1. Properly carried out, fumigation should not affect hatchability.
2. Fumigation will only kill bacteria that are present on the surface of hatchery refuse. Fumigation will not kill bacteria inside unhatched or pipped eggs. It is important to dispose of hatchery refuse carefully to minimize hatchery contamination.
3. The hatchery room must be separate from the tray dumping room and from the chick processing area. Air flow and traffic must be controlled to prevent contamination of the chick processing and holding areas.
4. Efficient fumigation along with other sanitary measures should control navel infection (omphalitis).
5. Fumigation is not intended to replace a thorough cleaning program

 

[rbaker0345]

Essentially, it helps to weigh the eggs before they go into the incubator, then at 7 and 14 days. Also, since different breeds/species of birds will have different porosity of eggs, its helpful to only hatch one kind of egg at a time..

Perfect example: The hatch I'm coming to an end of right now consisted of a staggered hatch of silkies, bresse, and turkeys. I have found that with my silkies (mine, not shipped), a dry incubation and hatch is perfect. This puts my humidity in the high 20's and low 30's. So I had a near perfect hatch (after adding a vitamin supplement to my breeder ration, but that's another discussion) of very healthy chicks with the silkies. With my bresse, I only had about a 50% hatch and neither of the turkey eggs that I had in there hatched.

I'm down to the last eggs in the incubator and I'm at lockdown today. I just weighed the five eggs that I have left in there and the one turkey egg that I have left in there has a very small air cell and has only lost 8.2% of its initial weight. This is from a 13 week old hen so according to the turkey chart above her egg should have lost about 12% so I know that this egg will not hatch well if at all. I could drastically lower the humidity by adding some silica packets which I have diligently collected for just such an occasion but me being the stunad that I am, I also have four, shipped bresse eggs in there. Now the bresse eggs have lost 15.08%, 19.1%, 15.6% and 11.63% respectively and they look much like the silkie eggs pictured above.

My plan is to leave things the way they are. The one egg that stands a chance of hatching well is the last one I mentioned. I have hatched out (with assistance) eggs like the three others with high percentage loss but from experience, I know that if I add humidity now, they will all drown especially the turkey egg. I also know from experience that the turkey egg is probably underdeveloped and will sit in that egg before hatching for at least a few days more than the normal 28. So I'm going to get through the bresse hatch and hope I get more than just the one to hatch, then if the turkey hasn't died in its jelly egg by then, I am going to lower humidity and hope for a pip at which point I will assis hatch and if it makes it to hatching, and its a big, wet poult, I will give it a grain of lasix and shove some yolk down its throat, but those are big "ifs", it probably wont survive.

What I should have done is set the silkies alone, then set my own bresse along with the turkeys (this probably would have been okay). Then set the shipped bresse. And I should have weighed them all at seven days instead of waiting for 18 days for the bresse and 25 days for the turkeys. Live and learn I always say. I probably would have had a difficult hatch with the bresse anyway. My guess is that the one that is within normal limits is the youngest egg and the others were perhaps older than 3 days when they were shipped.

 

[casportpony]

Are turkey egg shells thicker?

-Kathy

 

[R2elk]

Are turkey egg shells thicker?

-Kathy

Normally turkey eggs have thicker shells than do chicken eggs and guinea eggs tend to be even thicker than the turkey eggs.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: I thought so, just hadn't measured them to be sure.

-Kathy

 

[R2elk]

I thought so, just hadn't measured them to be sure.

-Kathy

The other thing that I have noticed is that both the same thing applies to the membranes with turkey eggs definitely having tougher membranes than chicken eggs and guinea eggs having even tougher membranes than the turkey eggs. I have had guineas that were zipped completely around but the keets didn't have enough strength left to tear through the membrane.