Did this chick hit a blood vessel?

[Pippin quail]

I have been hatching chicks the past week, I know it's not "recommended" but I put 8 eggs in the incubator 5 days after the first batch. I had 4 chicks hatch yesterday, which would be their day 20. There was another egg pipped since yesterday morning. I did take chicks out last night because they were pecking other eggs and each other. But the humidity never went below 67%-70%. This morning I excitedly went to see if that pipped egg had hatched... And I saw it had started zipping. But around the hole it looks dark brown, like dried blood. It's really hard to see safe when harder to take a picture of..I don't want to open the Bator in case my other 3 eggs have pips I can't see it risk shrink wrapping that chick if it is still hatching. But it has definitely been 24 hours since it first pipped and I don't see any movement or hear anything from it anymore. Should I take it out and see if it's alive and needing assistance or accept that it probably died during hatching and not risk others that will hopefully hatch??

 

[JaeG]

I would whip it out and see if there's any hope.

Occasionally, unfortunately, it does happen that they hit a vessel and die.

Don't worry - I add eggs a few days later too. Its not 'recommended' but I've never had any problems.

 

[Pippin quail]

I would whip it out and see if there's any hope.

Occasionally, unfortunately, it does happen that they hit a vessel and die.

Don't worry - I add eggs a few days later too. Its not 'recommended' but I've never had any problems.

It definitely died during hatching. I'm not sure if it hit a blood vessel or shrink wrapped. It's definitely dry there now, but it has been sitting that way all day. I didn't want to risk my last 3 eggs (not these ameracaunas that I removed, but 3 others) I ended up candling the others and I see zero movement or signs of life. I also did the float test and saw only one possible wiggle. I put them back just in case, but there was obviously something wrong with my settings as I got only 50% hatch rate for each batch I hatched. This is the first time I've had one start hatching and not finish though. And the air cells in these 4 ameracauna eggs were really big. Not sure if that's caused by low or high humidity?

 

[Pippin quail]

Trying to decide if we should do eggtopsies but worried I'll be too disturbed. I know they were all fairly developed though because I candled shortly before lockdown and all were alive then.

 

[JaeG]

What did you have the incubator set to temperature and humidity wise? It's best to have an independent thermometer and hygrometer but you need to calibrate them so that you know they are reading correctly. Here's an article explaining how to do that:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...incubator-thermometers-and-hygrometers.73634/

Each incubator can be quite different as to what humidity setting you need to use as how the air moves through them and what your climate is like all makes a difference. The only way to work that out is by incubating eggs.

Incubators can have warmer and cooler spots within them too so it pays to rearrange the eggs every few days so that no egg stays in exactly the same place for the duration of incubation.

Hope that helps some and you have more success next time.

 

[Pippin quail]

What did you have the incubator set to temperature and humidity wise? It's best to have an independent thermometer and hygrometer but you need to calibrate them so that you know they are reading correctly. Here's an article explaining how to do that:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...incubator-thermometers-and-hygrometers.73634/

Each incubator can be quite different as to what humidity setting you need to use as how the air moves through them and what your climate is like all makes a difference. The only way to work that out is by incubating eggs.

Incubators can have warmer and cooler spots within them too so it pays to rearrange the eggs every few days so that no egg stays in exactly the same place for the duration of incubation.

Hope that helps some and you have more success next time.

Ok prepare for a novel, you don't have to read it if you don't want!

I had my incubator at 37.5° C (99.5 F) and it would of course fluctuate slightly but never below 37 or above 38. The humidity I had at between 20-30% for the beginning (i read a few things and was recommended trying a "dry" incubation by someone so I actually did that with my first hatch a couple months ago and this one. First hatch went slightly better but had complications of it's own.)

I have a Little Giant forced air incubator with an automatic turner.. I never thought of moving the eggs to different spots, though I'm sure they ended up moved a couple times when I candled them. Also when my 2.5 year old got in there on day 1 and rearranged them all pointy side up (that was the first complication of this batch!). A few days after that I candled them and it looked like 5/12 had blood rings, but it was hard to tell so I left them. However, since I thought a bunch had quit, I bought 8 more eggs and put them in when first batch was on day 5.
When I candled the new batch a few days after adding them, they were all growing well. I also re-candled the first ones and found that all but one were actually growing a I could see the little embryos moving around. I was so excited.

Fast forward to lockdown day #1 for first batch. The second batch were on day 13 so I figured they would probably be ok not being turned anymore. I was worried about upping the humidity but hoped for the best. I added water to all the chambers and humidity shot up to 80%. I opened the incubator a couple times and got it to stay around 70-75%. I also re-candled all the eggs before locking down and found just one more had quit and the rest I could clearly see blood vessels and movement.

Fast forward to hatching, which I believe started on day 19. I had 6 of the 10 hatch in a 2 day period. And then one of those ended up not making it past day 2.
I had 4 eggs left to hatch from that batch and left them until I was going to lockdown a second time and clean out all the gunk quickly, but when I looked into the incubator, 2 of my second batch had already pipped! That would have been on their day 19 too, I think.. Have to check my calendar for sure. Anyway I had to end up leaving most of the mess and unhatched eggs in there to not risk shrink wrapping those chicks. They hatched with no problem and once they were up and moving a few hours later, one of them started pecking the pip hole of a third chick, right on the membrane. I removed them quickly to the brooder. The chick that was being pecked in the egg hatched a couple hours later and during that time two more had pipped. One hatched and I was trying to leave it until the other one hatched (I know it would have survived in the incubator, but it was absolutely freaking out and I wanted to put it in the brooder, hoping that being with the other chicks would calm it down. I moved quickly and the humidity didn't drop much, but I think I had opened the incubator two or three times total while that one egg had been pipped. This morning it was clearly not moving though it had started to zip at some point last night, I think. It seems like a lot of shell was missing from the outside though and now I'm actually wondering if that last chick in there was pecking at it before I took it out.... I think that's about all the details I can think of. I am happy with my 9 healthy, fluffy chicks but still really disappointed about the 9 that didn't hatch. Especially that one that pipped. I guess I learned some valuable lessons though - I will definitely try and avoid staggered hatching in the future because it just complicates things!
I will also make sure the door to my incubating room actually keeps a 2 or 3 year old out and put my incubator up and out of reach of toddlers in case they somehow break the door (like she did this time).

If you made it this far and have any other advice, feel free to share. I think I'm all done hatching for this year and now just hoping most or all of my 9 chicks are pullets. (Because I currently have 4 pullets and ELEVEN COCKERELS in my coop!)

 

[JaeG]

Kids can be so very helpful can't they?

The fact that they were hatching on day 19 makes me wonder if the temperature was higher than your incubator/thermometer was telling you, though some strains of birds do hatch earlier, some later (21 days is just an average). Also if the eggs were stored in a warm environment, before being incubated, that can kick start development. I'm pretty sure my eggs I have incubating will most likely start hatching early because it's winter where I am so our fire is going most of the time to keep the house toasty warm (so I have nowhere cool to store eggs before setting them).

I have opened my incubator many times during hatch and I've not had any get shrink wrapped, but I am in a pretty humid climate anyway and I always have my humidity up around 70-75% (and I've even had it higher and had no issues with that) so that there is a bit of a buffer if I need to open the incubator.

The only time humidity can be too high during lockdown is if you are getting condensation building up inside the incubator, and that tends to happen when the room the incubator is in is cold and there's too much of a temperature difference. The humidity always shoots up when you add more water but it soon settles down.

With humidity during incubation you can weigh your eggs with a gram scale to track their weight loss. Eggs need to lose between 12-16% of their start weight by day 21. You can weigh them all together and just work out the average (it's quicker and if some eggs have to be removed due to them not developing it doesn't affect the results). When I've done this I've used a simple line graph with the weight range I'll need up the side and the days of incubation along the bottom.

Weigh the eggs before setting, work out the average and plot that point on day 0. Using that number work out what a 12-16% loss would be (older eggs need to lose less weight, very fresh eggs more - there are handy percentage calculators online if you need one) and plot that number/weight on day 21. Draw a straight line between those two points then on any day of incubation you can weigh your eggs and see whether they are above or below that line by what looks like too much, or if they look like they are tracking well. If they aren't losing enough and are too far above the line you need to reduce the humidity. If they are too far below the line and losing too much weight you need to increase the humidity.

It sounds more complicated than it is, but you only need to do that once or twice and then you should have a pretty good idea of what your humidity setting needs to be. I keep mine at 25-30%-ish.

Did your eggs come through the post? There are always more issues with shipped eggs (and 50% hatch rate for shipped eggs would be doing very well).

I'm glad you didn't throw out eggs you thought had blood rings until you were absolutely sure. They can be tricky sometimes and I recently had one I was sure was developing a blood ring, but it wasn't and it ended up hatching out just fine.

What bad luck hatching all those cockerels. Some batches are like that and sometimes it swings the other way. Hopefully luck will be in your favour next time!

 

[Pippin quail]

Kids can be so very helpful can't they?

The fact that they were hatching on day 19 makes me wonder if the temperature was higher than your incubator/thermometer was telling you, though some strains of birds do hatch earlier, some later (21 days is just an average). Also if the eggs were stored in a warm environment, before being incubated, that can kick start development. I'm pretty sure my eggs I have incubating will most likely start hatching early because it's winter where I am so our fire is going most of the time to keep the house toasty warm (so I have nowhere cool to store eggs before setting them).

I have opened my incubator many times during hatch and I've not had any get shrink wrapped, but I am in a pretty humid climate anyway and I always have my humidity up around 70-75% (and I've even had it higher and had no issues with that) so that there is a bit of a buffer if I need to open the incubator.

The only time humidity can be too high during lockdown is if you are getting condensation building up inside the incubator, and that tends to happen when the room the incubator is in is cold and there's too much of a temperature difference. The humidity always shoots up when you add more water but it soon settles down.

With humidity during incubation you can weigh your eggs with a gram scale to track their weight loss. Eggs need to lose between 12-16% of their start weight by day 21. You can weigh them all together and just work out the average (it's quicker and if some eggs have to be removed due to them not developing it doesn't affect the results). When I've done this I've used a simple line graph with the weight range I'll need up the side and the days of incubation along the bottom.

Weigh the eggs before setting, work out the average and plot that point on day 0. Using that number work out what a 12-16% loss would be (older eggs need to lose less weight, very fresh eggs more - there are handy percentage calculators online if you need one) and plot that number/weight on day 21. Draw a straight line between those two points then on any day of incubation you can weigh your eggs and see whether they are above or below that line by what looks like too much, or if they look like they are tracking well. If they aren't losing enough and are too far above the line you need to reduce the humidity. If they are too far below the line and losing too much weight you need to increase the humidity.

It sounds more complicated than it is, but you only need to do that once or twice and then you should have a pretty good idea of what your humidity setting needs to be. I keep mine at 25-30%-ish.

Did your eggs come through the post? There are always more issues with shipped eggs (and 50% hatch rate for shipped eggs would be doing very well).

I'm glad you didn't throw out eggs you thought had blood rings until you were absolutely sure. They can be tricky sometimes and I recently had one I was sure was developing a blood ring, but it wasn't and it ended up hatching out just fine.

What bad luck hatching all those cockerels. Some batches are like that and sometimes it swings the other way. Hopefully luck will be in your favour next time!

Thanks for your very thorough answer and explanation! I will definitely look more into those percentages and graphing things out next time around.

My eggs were not shipped, I picked them up locally. One batch had an hour drive home with a few bumpy gravel roads and the other just a 10 minute drive, but also lots of gravel.. I'm wondering if letting the eggs sit for a day or so before would have helped anything settle. However they were all developing at the beginning so I doubt that was the problem. I think the eggs were very fresh too, the second batch for sure was collected the morning I picked them up.

So many variables! I will definitely have time to research before next spring and at that point will hopefully be hatching eggs from my own chickens! Or maybe they'll hatch their own and it will be more out of my hands. Haha

 

[Feathercrazie]

Thanks for your very thorough answer and explanation! I will definitely look more into those percentages and graphing things out next time around.

My eggs were not shipped, I picked them up locally. One batch had an hour drive home with a few bumpy gravel roads and the other just a 10 minute drive, but also lots of gravel.. I'm wondering if letting the eggs sit for a day or so before would have helped anything settle. However they were all developing at the beginning so I doubt that was the problem. I think the eggs were very fresh too, the second batch for sure was collected the morning I picked them up.

So many variables! I will definitely have time to research before next spring and at that point will hopefully be hatching eggs from my own chickens! Or maybe they'll hatch their own and it will be more out of my hands. Haha

I always let the eggs sit a day or two before I put them in the incubator. "Fresh" eggs seem to not hatch as well. A broody hen will usually lay her last egg about two days before she begins brooding. Another variable that many people overlook is turning the eggs while they are waiting to go in the incubator. Many of the chicks that get stuck after pipping were stuck before they began forming in the shell.

 

[Lizzy733]

You should do some calibrations and do a empty-run of your incubator with additional probes to find hot/cold spots. Your incubator is only probing in one specific area and humidity sensors are notoriously bad at being accurate.

Giving the probe a bath in heavily iced water should give you freezing temps when submerged about an inch deep - if it's over or under, adjust accordingly or take note of how far off it is. Humidity can be checked with a salt test - you will need an external sensor for this as you can't really gut the incubator's.

For additional thermometers, reptile and aquarium ones tend to be most accurate out of the box - still give them an ice bath to be certain. Set the probes in different areas of the incubator and let it get up to temp, to see how different these readings are. The bigger the Bator, the more likely there will be hot and cold spots present. I tested center, each corner, and overnight before adding eggs to mine.

If you are constantly having large air cells or dry chicks, adjusting by air cell size or weight loss would be best and ignore the actual number your Bator is telling you. (Mine reads 20% too low) - every 6 days is a good schedule to weigh in. They should lose around 4% per weigh in till lockdown. Aka: start weight x .04 each weigh in. That would put you at 12% weight loss - between 10-14% should give a safe hatch.